All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > Gridiron Dynasty Beta > LOL the more we try to change the same it becomes.
5/5/2013 2:26 PM
Posted by grindi on 4/19/2013 11:19:00 PM (view original):
Norbert I realize very well what the Beta is "supposed" to do.  But if you haven't addressed the horribly outlandish randomness of its predecessor then all you have done is put bells and whistles on the same crappy game it was.  Sorry but that is how I view the old game and if you guys don't like it too bad.  There is no way a superior team should be beaten by a SIM. .  A 100+ team has absolutely no business winning a game like that especially a SIM.   My Argento team got beat by a horrible SIM.  As manowar says, you destroy a team in the test time after time and then the real game comes and you lose?  To a SIM?  BS.  To a human would be iffy.  No amount of game planning should overcome a huge talent gap. The way it is Chapman would beat Ohio State 1 out of 10 times.  Again BS.  That is why I quit purchasing seasons and quit the game.  So far I see NO difference in the randomness.  I've said the same thing ever since the test games were allowed to be played.  How can you play the test games and beat a team by 30-40 points 10 times in a row and then get beat twice by 20 when neither team made any changes?  This is what it is like.  Ohio State plays Chapman and every single player on Ohio State has the flu.  In GD Chapman would kick their ***.  In real life the OSU guys could be on their death beds and still pull out the win.
+1!
5/5/2013 2:28 PM
Posted by grindi on 4/21/2013 8:57:00 PM (view original):
well srodz who has always been an *** to me.....I didn't pick any teams.  I wasn't going to do any of this.  They were picked by someone else and I was convinced to do it by him and some others.  There are some of us who don't kiss WIS's *** and give honest opinions and actual feedback.  My opinion and others who are more sensitive to your types of mouth think it is the same game with bells and whistles.  What has changed in the recruiting?  You still have to spend way too much money to drive off SIMs.  What has changed in the play of the game?  You still have SIMs going to Conf finals and the game still has huge upsets.  So what is the difference?  So far it is the same circus just a different tent.
+1!
5/5/2013 2:36 PM
Posted by scrodz on 4/24/2013 9:47:00 AM (view original):
Posted by grindi on 4/24/2013 7:53:00 AM (view original):
LOL  you lost to a human and the #1 ranked team in DII.  Makes all the difference.  You did NOT have the better team.  Not by a long shot.  Deen you got it wrong.  Not spoken like a true football man but by someone trying trash someone else.  You're pathetic scrodz.

Maybe your problem is you don't know how to evaluate your team. If you look on the right side of the PBP, at the bottom of the box score, it shows you the relative strengths of both teams by position.
Maybe the "role rating" should be shown BEFORE the game? Maybe have a "Game Preview" page or something that shows the role ratings of each team. THEN and only then can you game plan accordingly. Other than that it's like guessing and get random results like grindi said.
5/5/2013 3:17 PM
Posted by iamthetwo__2 on 5/5/2013 9:27:00 AM (view original):
Hmmm! I noticed Grindi came in on one of the guys I was on.  I knocked off 2 of the 3 Sims and was getting ready to hit him again when Grindi shows up on him all lby himself.  Funny how the shoe is on the other foot when it suits him.  I just dumped more on another guy and knocked off the Sim that was on him.  Didn't need to go after a human recruited player to get one with the same basic cores. 
I don't think so as I haven't added any players since yesterday around 3 o'clock.  Hardly last minute.  Also I haven't turned anybody even yellow that was a human red to me that I know of.  I did scout some DII players that  DIII players were on yesterday about noon.  If you are Worcester State, because that was the team affected,  and one turned then you got a small beef.  Hardly the same as having them turned in the last 2 cycles before signing.  If there was a SIM and you on then I may have jumped on a guy and just maybe it was me that knocked the last one off.  So I guess I am telling yo that you're full of crap.
5/5/2013 3:20 PM
tarrin, you can see every team's ratings just by running a test game, any time you want to. You don't have to wait until after the real game to see what the other team has. You can ALWAYS look at the other teams players. You can even do it in GD 2.0, you just have to do the data entry to keep a player management tool current. That's what ****** me off so much about grindi: instead of actually DOING anything, like learning how to beat SIMs or protect his recruits from other coaches, he wants norbert to do it for him. grindi is obviously smart enough to do this. As far as I can see, he's either too lazy to put forth the effort, or he just likes ******** about it.
5/5/2013 3:35 PM
Posted by scrodz on 5/5/2013 1:54:00 PM (view original):
katz, I agree that the scouting phase is too basic. I'd like to see all of the "fluff" statements in the scouting report actually MEAN something. You could break the potential score into different areas, like willingness to practice, how well he learns from game experience, how disciplined he is about his training, etc. Have four or more different measurements, and a recruit that maxed them ALL would be a true STL. You could even recruit to your training plan. It would give the game more texture, but it would probably require a serious re-write to the code.

As for the CVs, it's just a matter of window dressing. You win recruits by building up interest. To get the interest, you have to spend recruiting dollars. Instead of saying "I'm going to spend $800 recruiting dollars", you say "one CV". Does it matter if you pay your rent in $100 bills or pennies? It's still the same amount in the end. In reality, recruits only have one official CV, but coaches also make hundreds of phone calls and texts. They send mailings. have dozens of different people contacting the recruits. Should we simulate all that too? Instead of buying that one CV for $800, do you want to ring up 80 AC phone calls?

runrun, late flips are part of college recruiting. While I can understand your frustration at getting jumped, have you actually done anything to prevent it? I don't know about anyone else, but if I have a key recruit, I'll pump a few CVs into him even after he turns green, just to block a late flip. I regularly keep more recruits green than I have scholarships for. That gives me ready backups, and makes it harder for someone else to get much info about my recruits just by looking at my greens.Did I work to turn him green, or did I flip him on an AC phone call? Hard to tell without keeping phase by phase track.

grindi, recruiting is a basic part of this game; probably the most enjoyable part, if you're not getting your *** kicked. If you don't LIKE recruiting, and think Powerplay Manager is better, maybe you should spend more time on that, and less time here? I also hear recruiting is easy in Tecmo Bowl...

Scrodz that is exactly what I am going to do.  I don't like recruiting.  I am pretty good at it.  I spend time at it.  My teams always have 2-4 Sky the Limit players on them.  I know of nobody else that gets that.  The way recruiting is done here it is a big waste of my time if I am to do it right.  The recruit jumpers aren't as big of a deal as the wasted time.  Take it anyway you like but it is a pain in the *** to me.  Too many times a guy fights off SIMs, spending a ton of his budget and then loses recruits just before signing when money is at its lowest.  To me that is just plain stupid.  I recruited one season a while back.  I did not even look at a recruit until the night before signing.  Then I looked at players whose managers I knew were decent recruiters.  I didn't even scout.  I ended up with like the #4 class in the Div.  I took one or 2 guys from each player.  I had a ton of money left.  They spent all their money driving out the SIMs and then I reaped the rewards.  How nuts is that?

Nope I don't like the way this recruiting works.  I like Katzs idea and if implemented I might change my mind.  But as I see it recruiting as it is, is a collosal waste of my time and I value my time more than that.

PS.  Scrodz...I have NEVER had my *** kicked in recruiting and powerplay manager is 10 times the game WIS is.  But it has no American Football.  It has Hockey, Soccer, Tennis, Racing and a more coming, which for me are a gazillion times more fun than Football.  I don't particularly like College Football to begin with.  If I was running some of the Universities in real life the first thing I would do is Dump the NCAA.  What a f_ed up organization. But anyways don't try to make it sound like sour grapes as the reason I don't like recruiting.  It isn't.
5/5/2013 3:49 PM
Posted by scrodz on 5/5/2013 3:20:00 PM (view original):
tarrin, you can see every team's ratings just by running a test game, any time you want to. You don't have to wait until after the real game to see what the other team has. You can ALWAYS look at the other teams players. You can even do it in GD 2.0, you just have to do the data entry to keep a player management tool current. That's what ****** me off so much about grindi: instead of actually DOING anything, like learning how to beat SIMs or protect his recruits from other coaches, he wants norbert to do it for him. grindi is obviously smart enough to do this. As far as I can see, he's either too lazy to put forth the effort, or he just likes ******** about it.
Again scrodz you have NEVER had a decent thing to say about me.  Your whole tirade at me here is a total lie.  All one has to do is compare my record with what you just said to see your a huge liar.  Protecting recruit?  I lost 2 of 17.  That is pretty much normal for everybody.  Losing to SIMs?  It is rare for me but has happened.  Not because I don't know how to beat them.  That is ridiculous.  It's because of the randomness of the game.  You want to blow smoke up everybody's *** about how great this game is and how there isn't flaws, like you're a WIS genius.  You're just ordinary.  You don't seem bright enough to even understand what people are saying.  Because your life is how it is you think everybody who criticizes the game does because it is sour grapes.  Has it ever even occurred to you that sometimes when people don't like certain aspect and give examples, It is just to show what isn't working properly or it is something that doesn't appeal to them?  Hell no.  Your to busy sitting up on your high horse looking down your nose at them thinking you are God's gift to GD.  Here's a news flash, you aren't.  Several times I put out challenges on here to you and others and all of you Grindi haters would never put your money where you mouth was. Slid64 wanted to but hell he'd kick my *** but you sure wouldn't. So just shut your pie hole about me because you don't have a freaking clue what you are talking about.
5/5/2013 3:57 PM
If you could always tell who's going to win the game by looking at the ratings, there would be no point in playing.
5/5/2013 4:49 PM (edited)
Agreed but when the ratings are lopsided there should be a snowballs chance in hell for the underdog to win but that isn't the case here.  On here is happens way to regularly.  That is the problem. In rev 2 Conte came on and told us he set it so there would be a certain percent of big upsets. He told us he adjusted it.  I don't know what factors he used to get the upset but everyone I ever saw had the better team playing like the band.  QBs that threw 2 INTs in the last 10 games would throw 5.  RBs that rarely fumbled, fumbled.  Penalties on big gainer plays. STs that gave up points.  Make the upsets realistic.  Not every one is an Applachian St vs Michigan type.
5/5/2013 4:53 PM
grindi, like I said, you're a smart guy. You just seem to like ******** about things and asking norbert to change them for you more than you like actually changing the way you recruit to overcome the challenges that bother you. It's not that your way of recruiting is wrong. As far as I'm concerned, as long as you can win games, there IS no wrong way to recruit. You like looking for STLs when you're recruiting. Based on what you've said, you send out lots of scouts to lots of recruits looking for them. Because you do that, you don't have as much time or money left for other recruiting goals, like beating SIMs or keeping key recruits safe. I'm not saying you don't know how to do this. Like I said, you're a smart guy. You've just made a decision to use your time and money looking for STLs. Your team, your choice.

But then, once you've MADE this choice, you come back saying "norbert, please change this because it's too hard". I understand that you FEEL that it's too hard, but the only reason it seems that way is because of the decisions you've already made. If you spend too much money looking for STLs, you probably won't have enough to take any SIM recruit you want. You probably won't have enough money to get into late recruiting battles, because you spent it on something else. You've just chosen to take a chance with your green recruits so you can go looking for STLs, and when you do that, sometimes you get burned. Especially when you come on the board and tell everyone how many STLs you're finding, because everyone else around here knows you're burning your cash on the STLs, and won't have any money left for a battle over an above average with good cores. Peole don't just say "grindi's a good recruiter, I'll plunk down $5k on his recruit sight-unseen". People scout recruits they're interested in, and when they see you sitting on a prime recruit, they know you'll be cash-poor right before signing.

As for waiting until someone kicks the SIMs off of a recruit and swooping in and picking him "cheap", it can't be done. If you spend money on a recruit to drive the SIMs away, you're building interest with that recruit. That amount of interest doesn't change just because the SIMs are gone. If everything else is equal, and I spend $5k in CVs driving the SIMs off, anyone who wants to "poach" that recruit is going to have to put at least that $5k down to match me (once again, if all else is equal).

Your recruiting style spends most of your cash up front. Quite frankly, that's a weakness. It leaves you vulnerable to players who saved more money. (once again, that doesn't make you wrong, it's just a weakness you've chosen to accept). If you know this, and accept the risks, why are you calling recruiting random? You're just seeing the results of inevitable cause and effect. You can either adapt, or not. It's your choice.

Think of it as evolution in action.

5/5/2013 5:56 PM
Being as you are wrong about me sending a LOT of scouts out to find STLs makes the rest of your hypothesis a waste of time to read.  I don't look for STLs until the last day or so of recruiting and there are certain things I look for in a recruit to find them.  I don't recruit them until everything else is set up.  If I have 10 spots I get 10 solid players and sign 9.  THEN I go search for 1 STL.   By the way genius, a player with above average cores and has reached his limit is not one I even look at.  My improves a lot with average cores will be ahead of him by his Jr year.  You are a complete idiot in what you're saying.  I don't have a "problem" with it.  I don't like it.  I can also see why it is a turnoff especially to newer players.  When are you knuckleheads ever going to understand that I don't have a "problem" recruiting or any other portion of the game.  My winning percentage is better than yours and I generally pick the worst teams available so I can rebuild them.  I DON"T LIKE the way recruiting. is done.  It wastes too much time.  SIMs in the entire game are too strong.  If I wanted to play against a computer I would get Stratomatic Football for one initial price and not play this.  Why can't you bone heads get it through your heads, maybe even look at my record, and figure out I don't have "problems" building a team or playing, I just don't like the way some of the things have to be done.  I DON'T LIKE that there isn't a level playing field and vision and prestige are important and I am a BENEFACTOR of that.  It isn't because somebody else gets it and I don't because I get it.  I don't like it.  I don't feel we should have to spend our recruit money fighting the SIMs or the house as I think of it.  It IS more fun to battle another manager from the beginning.  I don't like that players that have been green from the early cycles can be so easily taken at the last minute.  For every cycle a team has a player green there should be something that makes it more difficult for someone to turn him.  I'm not a liberal like you who thinks if it isn't done my way it is wrong.  Different strokes for different folks.  But you libs are going to pound it down my throat that your way is the only way or I'm stupid.  BS.  I don't like it and I state why.  I hardly think I am unique in my likes and dislikes and obviously there have been a lot more like me because there are fewer people playing and staying.  Guys like you just **** me off.  You're too self centered to understand that the majority was the people who left and the minority that likes this abomination and calling everybody stupid and poor coaches because they speak up against what is wrong with the game, are the ones calling the shots.  Meanwhile more people and vets are leaving the game.  Typical liberal behavior.  You can't see the forest for the trees.
5/5/2013 6:02 PM
"Liberal"? You couldn't come up with anything worse than "liberal"?
5/5/2013 7:31 PM
scrodz wrote to reply: As for the CVs, it's just a matter of window dressing. You win recruits by building up interest. To get the interest, you have to spend recruiting dollars. Instead of saying "I'm going to spend $800 recruiting dollars", you say "one CV". Does it matter if you pay your rent in $100 bills or pennies? It's still the same amount in the end. In reality, recruits only have one official CV, but coaches also make hundreds of phone calls and texts. They send mailings. have dozens of different people contacting the recruits. Should we simulate all that too? Instead of buying that one CV for $800, do you want to ring up 80 AC phone calls?

Just thought that by having one CV with varying values the game could separate who is willing to pay more once you are in the recruits final list. The ultimate challenge to recruiting, whether in the current format or any new format, will be how to manage those fictitious $$$$ for recruiting. You have to have some measure of outdoing the other coach, but I don't think that last minute deals with multiple CV (which in the time period of the game compared to real life would not be physically possible) should be the way the game allows us to build interest. Also, my idea with the phone calls would be to keep interest for the recruit, but for each phone call (say at most 5) you would learn a little more about each of their attributes potential.

Just throwing out for consideration. I know Norbert won't be getting around to this any time soon, but it is good to throw around constructive ideas.
5/5/2013 8:00 PM
katz, I agree with most of what you're saying, I just think that changing CVs as you suggest would leave a fairly large hole in a coaches recruiting efforts that would have to be replaced with something else, and currently, the "something else"s are just an increment of the CV. Sort of like using two $5s instead of a $10. I do think it will work, though, maybe  in conjunction with a major change to the scouting process, but that's not in this update.

A possibility that wouldn't be too hard to implement would be to increase the "compound interest" you get from getting a recruits interest early. From what I've read, it's in the code now, but isn't much of a buff. If they increased the %, though, you could get to the point where if you spent $5k to turn a guy green the first day, that $5k would be worth significantly more by signing day, maybe $6-7k. That way, it would discourage people from "poaching" on the last day, since it would cost them more to do it. This would actually be just a variant of the way SIMs work, in that the longer a SIM is on a recruit, the more interest the recruit has in the SIM.

5/5/2013 9:00 PM
Posted by scrodz on 5/5/2013 6:02:00 PM (view original):
"Liberal"? You couldn't come up with anything worse than "liberal"?
Actually that IS the worst insult as far as I'm concerned.  I can think of no lower excuse for a human being than that.  They destroy order and follow chaos.  They are the most dangerous people on earth.  I would rather be called anything than a liberal.
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