All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > Gridiron Dynasty Beta > Oriole - make talent matter
8/1/2013 12:18 PM
Since you're on the board again, please make talent the deciding factor again.

Even if you don't want to disclose what attributes are important, make the more talented team have a clear and decisive advantage on every play.  Also, the more attributes you use to determine an outcome, the more cause and effect you lose.  The more things that matter, the less they matter.  This is the direction 2.0 took and it has not been successful.  Keep it simple and straightforward so the players can figure it out.

Right now, talent can be largely negated by simply guessing the right call, pass or run.  It's more effective to guess right than to have superior talent.  If you are not going to allow middle ground in defensive playcalling, you cannot make the advantages or disadvantages of the guess so large.  See the thread [Run Test] for an example.  As it stands, the coach who can change their gameplan last will win the half.

I think part of the talent negation in the passing game is due to pressure being broken.  See thread [Passing Game: Pressure:NotSet].  It seems odd to have pressure on the QB the whole play than when he makes a pass that pressure it "not set".

In my opinion and the opinion of many that have left the game, until talent than can be understood by the players (and not convoluted by the black box nature of the engine) is the most important aspect of success and can be consistently and visibly exploited, the game will struggle to satisfy the user.
8/1/2013 12:45 PM
Actually, the pressure not counting enough against accuracy may well be one of the problems. Outside of sacks I've never noticed a significant difference between a pressured throw and a non-pressured throw. 
8/1/2013 12:48 PM
Slid64er, Although I have not expressed my dissatisfaction I put WIS on the backburner for 2 weeks. ( my oldest sons wrestling camp at VA Tech, then took the wife to Borgata in Atlantic City).  

Just got back a couple days ago and started up the tinkering again. With 3.0, rushing WR's from shotgun has been my interest.  That being said; I have 10 of the nations best wr's on my team(best by class).  

Made a spread sheet and I started testing. I completely controlled the environment so that everything was relevant. I took all wr's out of the lineup except for the wr I was testing and put him into wr1 slot. I made sure that only wr1 slot received ALL the carries.  BLA BLA etc. you know I checked and rechecked my work.

I tested each wr 10 times to get past sample size indiscepancies.  I charted every game's yards per carry average ONLY. All wr's were set at 95% fatigue etc. and then I averaged out the 10 game YPC average.  Along with the players attributes, wrpos rating, wrdp rating, custom rating of .25 ATH, +.25 SPD + .25 STR + .25 ELU, I even plugged in the formation IQ rating.

MY FINDINGS: 2 of my wr's were redshirted so I couldn't test them. I took the completed data and sorted by YPC from highest to lowest. The custom rating was spot on in line with sorted YPC. The wr ratings were all over the charts.  Formation IQ made little to no difference. But I was truly amazed to see such accuracy going right down the line.  Once again, my custom rating was a match.  Grant it, I am testing wr's rushing from shotgun but If you would do something similar with your rb's from your favorite formation you would probably find similar results.

Attempting to attch my spreadsheet:

 
Name Year Pos Form IQ A SPD D WE ST STR BLK TKL H GI E T TOT WR WRPs WRDp WR1 WR2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 YPC
Calvin Davis So.* WR 64 57 62 62 49 49 57 37 8 59 62 68 38 608 59 58 59 59 61 8.3 8.1 6.4 7.8 10.2 8.1 10.3 8 7.3 8.8 8.3
Douglas Hill Jr. WR 55 74 51 51 70 58 54 41 7 54 61 55 59 635 59 60 58 59 59 7 7 7.2 7.8 9.1 8.1 9 6.7 7.5 7.6 7.7
Douglas Petersen Jr. WR 57 57 67 63 88 57 52 46 1 57 62 51 44 645 57 57 57 57 57 7.9 8.7 8.7 7.2 8.2 7.5 7 6.3 7.5 6.7 7.6
Steve Garcia Sr. WR 73 57 69 53 34 48 31 39 9 69 52 66 47 574 59 57 59 59 56 7.5 5.9 6.5 7.8 6.2 9.4 7.4 8 8 5.9 7.3
Joshua Buchanan Sr. WR 72 57 64 69 39 64 38 49 1 70 59 54 48 612 58 58 58 58 53 7.4 6.7 6.5 7.9 7.5 6.3 6.7 7.2 8.2 8.8 7.3
Glen McCarty Fr. WR 28 46 52 30 40 34 46 44 18 46 46 67 26 495 49 47 49 49 53                     ####
Kevin Clark Fr.* WR 45 50 55 45 31 35 49 31 28 56 62 57 34 533 53 54 53 53 52 6.4 7.7 8.4 6.2 6.7 6 7.1 7.7 8 7.4 7.2
Matthew Lamb Fr.* WR 52 50 41 61 54 44 43 41 1 64 53 56 35 543 51 51 49 51 47 6.4 7.4 6.7 7.9 6.4 7.1 7.9 6.5 6.1 6.2 6.9
Walter Russell Fr. WR 37 51 43 43 50 49 38 18 35 48 46 38 38 497 44 45 44 44 43                     ####
Rodney Farmer Fr. WR 32 44 50 53 39 38 18 29 14 61 47 45 33 471 46 45 46 46 39 7 5.8 5.7 5.4 6.8 6.4 5.4 9.1 6.5 6.2 6.4
8/1/2013 12:52 PM (edited)
Compare the "wr2" column with the "YPC" column.

I think the bigger question should be, should there be more of a difference between my my best at 61 and worse at 39 in terms of the 2 yard average difference?  We might be into those redicoulous scores again if they make changes.
8/1/2013 12:58 PM
My opinion? Yes. There should be a larger difference, but I don't think that the numbers would go up for the top. They should go down for the bottom and stretch out. 
8/1/2013 1:00 PM
Lastly, to extremley simplify things; it looks as if you could say for every rating bump of ten you can expect about a yard more on the average. (with all things being equal).  As of right now the testing is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more intriguing than the game play :)
8/1/2013 1:09 PM
Posted by noah23 on 8/1/2013 12:58:00 PM (view original):
My opinion? Yes. There should be a larger difference, but I don't think that the numbers would go up for the top. They should go down for the bottom and stretch out. 
not a bad idea. only the crappiest teams would be able start freshmen.
8/1/2013 1:27 PM
Posted by tigerpark135 on 8/1/2013 12:52:00 PM (view original):
Compare the "wr2" column with the "YPC" column.

I think the bigger question should be, should there be more of a difference between my my best at 61 and worse at 39 in terms of the 2 yard average difference?  We might be into those redicoulous scores again if they make changes.
If you test against a run defense vs a pass defense, you'll see that guessing right on defense makes a bigger difference on the play than talent on either side of the ball.
8/1/2013 1:47 PM
Whole heartedly agree.  I was just adding in my small part of the equation so that when they adjust the don't adjust what doesn't need adjusting.  In your opinion, on average how many yards should a rb get against a perfectly matched oline/dline matchup?
8/12/2013 10:47 PM
Who guesses? It's not hard to look at the PBP to see what ur opp is doing
8/13/2013 8:54 PM
Posted by starfinder77 on 8/12/2013 10:47:00 PM (view original):
Who guesses? It's not hard to look at the PBP to see what ur opp is doing
I'm impressed with  your clairvoyance.  It must be great knowing what your opponent is going to call.
8/13/2013 9:45 PM
Posted by slid64er on 8/13/2013 8:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by starfinder77 on 8/12/2013 10:47:00 PM (view original):
Who guesses? It's not hard to look at the PBP to see what ur opp is doing
I'm impressed with  your clairvoyance.  It must be great knowing what your opponent is going to call.
85-8 with 5 CC's and 4 NC appearances in beta?  I'm respecting YOUR clairvoyance, sir. 
8/13/2013 10:03 PM
Posted by bjaygee on 8/13/2013 9:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by slid64er on 8/13/2013 8:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by starfinder77 on 8/12/2013 10:47:00 PM (view original):
Who guesses? It's not hard to look at the PBP to see what ur opp is doing
I'm impressed with  your clairvoyance.  It must be great knowing what your opponent is going to call.
85-8 with 5 CC's and 4 NC appearances in beta?  I'm respecting YOUR clairvoyance, sir. 
If I had starfinder77's supernatural abilities, I wouldn't lose at all.   Well, except to myself, though that problem's been fixed.
8/14/2013 3:12 PM
Posted by slid64er on 8/13/2013 10:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bjaygee on 8/13/2013 9:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by slid64er on 8/13/2013 8:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by starfinder77 on 8/12/2013 10:47:00 PM (view original):
Who guesses? It's not hard to look at the PBP to see what ur opp is doing
I'm impressed with  your clairvoyance.  It must be great knowing what your opponent is going to call.
85-8 with 5 CC's and 4 NC appearances in beta?  I'm respecting YOUR clairvoyance, sir. 
If I had starfinder77's supernatural abilities, I wouldn't lose at all.   Well, except to myself, though that problem's been fixed.
Yeah, I don't think you need anymore extra abilities. Your hard enough to beat as it is.
All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > Gridiron Dynasty Beta > Oriole - make talent matter

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