All Forums > SimLeague Basketball > SimLeague Basketball > Possession Penalty, Where is it?
2/5/2011 11:38 PM
Posted by ashamael on 7/27/2008 4:56:00 PM (view original):
Quote: Originally posted by seble on 7/27/2008
(1) I'm trying to give you parameters without giving away every detail. If you have an existing team you'd like me to check I can.

(2) Any guy close to or above Wilt is pretty much enough by himself to avoid the penalty.

The top 50 in terms of usage percentage (with no other parameters, so there are low minutes guys included), the lowest is 33.something usage. So that begs the question:

Which wilt?

50ppg one? There's only 3 Wilts in the top 50 of usage (and one is a 1700 minute one), so I'm assuming you mean 50ppg one. In that case. the highest scoring kobe and jordan are fine by themselves? You can surround them with low usage guys - and the low usage guys won't suffer a penalty - but Kobe and Jordan probably will (but 50ppg wilt won't? I don't understand how this works).



I'm not going to bother to waste my time anymore on 1. You want to give the customer vague information based on relative terms and won't give a satisfactory answer.

I haven't been around WIS long, and in the time I have been, I've seen a lot of anti-WIS attitudes in the forums and didn't understand why.

Now I'm starting to: WIS is a want-won't relationship.

The consumer (customer, player - US) wants to get their money's worth in the game.
The provider won't give us the information necessary for us to do that.

We don't need to know every detail, man. Nobody wants the code. We just want to know what's possible before wasting their money.

Relative terms don't help.
It's like you're driving on a long trip, but you don't know where you're going. You're on the interstate and the navigator is the person in the passenger's seat. You ask - how far is it to the exit we need to get off on?

Their answer:
"It's not far."

What is far? Is it 1 mile? 5 miles? 25 miles? 100 miles? How is that a helpful answer?

That is the same as saying - "a low/med/high volume guy will do __________"

What is medium volume? What is low volume? You've already said high volume is "a guy like Wilt" - which you can see the consternation in that from the first part of my post.
Has there ever been so much win and so much loss in a single post?
2/6/2011 1:48 AM
watching that moment of loss of innocence is poignant and painful - I havent been around all that long but it makes you wonder why there arent more old timers who can really remonstrate and agitate against such terrible service

I wonder what happened to them? maybe they were disappeared like members of Stalin's cabinet?


2/6/2011 4:08 AM
wow that was 2.5 years ago.
2/10/2011 10:25 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 7/28/2008
Just to give more clarification. Usage% is the percentage of team offensive possessions while that player was on the floor that he took a shot, turned the ball over, or was fouled.

Guys, I understand the frustration. Right now the tiers are:
Usage% >= 32.5 = 8 points
Usage% 27.2 To 32.5 = 6 points
Usage% 22.1 To 27.2 = 4 points
Usage% 17.5 To 22.1 = 2 points
Usage% 13.7 To 17.5 = 1 point
Usage% < 13.7 = 0.5 points

As long as you have 10 points total, you're fine. Less than that incurs a penalty based on how far under you are. This penalty affects all offensive players equally.

It's entirely possible those numbers could change slightly at some point, which is why I'd prefer not to use them. But there they are.
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2/10/2011 10:46 PM
Some of you may have heard vets talking about usage tiers.  This is how it's broken down.

1st tier usage (8 points) 32.5%+
2nd tier usage (6 points) 27.2% - 32.5%
3rd tier usage (4 points) 22.1% - 27.2%
4th tier usage (2 points) 17.5% - 22.1%
5th tier usage (1 point) 13.7% - 17.5%
bottom tier (0.5 points) less than 13.7%
4/8/2011 11:56 AM
bump for reference
4/10/2011 10:38 AM
this should be pinned (but of course they dont want noobs reading all the telling interstitial stuff that would reveal how bad they are)

the slow reveal of ashamael's loss of innocence over the length of this thread is in and of itself tragic
4/10/2011 3:52 PM
haha.  Anybody who ever says I'm too hard on WIS and always have been needs to go back and reread this thread.  That in itself should be a reason for being stickied.  Well, maybe not... but you know...
5/7/2011 8:51 AM
bump

SEBLE THERE'S A REASON THIS IS THE MOST BUMPED THREAD IN THESE FORUMS - NOOBS KEEP ASKING FOR THIS INFO

PIN IT OR SOMETHING LIKE IT
6/5/2011 10:39 PM
bump

the sim basketball version of the sticky
6/7/2011 2:08 AM
BUMP

I would also just like to add this.  When considering balance of Usage also consider your backups and how your rotations sub in and out.  If you have stretches during the game with wasted usage then that will add up over time.  Also consider who is one the court when for maximizing Usage among your team.  You want to maximize your mid level usage guys buy giving them stretches where they have opportunities to get shots.
6/7/2011 9:58 PM
Posted by badja on 3/17/2009 4:56:00 PM (view original):
Quote:
Guys, I understand the frustration. Right now the tiers are:
Usage% >= 32.5 = 8 points
Usage% 27.2 To 32.5 = 6 points
Usage% 22.1 To 27.2 = 4 points
Usage% 17.5 To 22.1 = 2 points
Usage% 13.7 To 17.5 = 1 point
Usage% < 13.7 = 0.5 points

As long as you have 10 points total, you're fine. Less than that incurs a penalty based on how far under you are. This penalty affects all offensive players equally.



Maybe I'm being picky, but 4 x 22% and 1 x 15% should not incur a penalty. You'd be looking at about 115+ pts per 48 I think.

The recent discussions of turnovers in the other thread you created got me to thinking about this thread.  So I reread it from the start.  I came across a gem:

This was from nc7

(3) Let's say Team A has players on the court with usage % of 30%, 30%, 5%, 5%, 5% and Team B players on the court all have usage % of 15%.  They both add up to 75%.  Are you saying they will be treated differently with regards to the possession penalty?


And here was seble's response:

(3) Yes. As I said, players are given points based on their tier. There are 5 tiers I believe. Both of those example lineups would have plenty of possessions to avoid a penalty.



Yet, according to our tier system seble so freely told us, that line-up would only have 5 total usage points and would therefore suffer a gigantic possession penalty.

I've been doing experiments with possession penalty for the past few months and have come to some more conclusions:

a)  seble has no idea what he's talking about
b)  nothing more need be said

6/8/2011 4:16 PM
Ha.  Wow.  How did that slip by all this time?

You know just looking at a real NBA team, it's so rare to find high usage players, let alone on the same team.   The SIM is so far off in so many ways.  



6/8/2011 4:40 PM
you need a synthetic team like the heat to find that kind of situation
6/22/2011 12:02 PM
Posted by ashamael on 2/10/2011 10:25:00 PM (view original):
Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 7/28/2008
Just to give more clarification. Usage% is the percentage of team offensive possessions while that player was on the floor that he took a shot, turned the ball over, or was fouled.

Guys, I understand the frustration. Right now the tiers are:
Usage% >= 32.5 = 8 points
Usage% 27.2 To 32.5 = 6 points
Usage% 22.1 To 27.2 = 4 points
Usage% 17.5 To 22.1 = 2 points
Usage% 13.7 To 17.5 = 1 point
Usage% < 13.7 = 0.5 points

As long as you have 10 points total, you're fine. Less than that incurs a penalty based on how far under you are. This penalty affects all offensive players equally.

It's entirely possible those numbers could change slightly at some point, which is why I'd prefer not to use them. But there they are.
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I've read pages 1, 5, 6, 8, 9.... and I can't find an answer for what happens if I have a whole lot more than 18.5 points for my starting 5?

All 5 players add up to ~110% usage, but it adds up to 18.5 (8, 6, 2, 2, 0.5) points in this scale. What happens then? Other than the fact that when my bench subs in, my usage% for the lineup will be significantly altered, what can happen, in terms of usage and its effects?

I remember reading a post on some sort of proper lineup usage% distribution, could someone link it to me?
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All Forums > SimLeague Basketball > SimLeague Basketball > Possession Penalty, Where is it?

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