5/26/2013 1:47 PM (edited)
There's been a new "craze" going on in the WIS NBA simulation lately.  And by craze, I mean there are a few owners using it... but since the overall population is small, a few means a large percentage!!!

Here's the theory:  Draft a ton of high ast% guys, put 'em on the floor together, and watch them boost each others' fg% by a really high amount!  How much ast% do you need to see a difference?

That's where testing has been inconclusive.  I've now had my best results and wanted to share them...

First off, here's the advanced stats of the team I've had the most success with:

Name Pos Usage% 2pt%# 3pt%# eFG% OReb% DReb% Ast% Stl% Blk%
09-10 Dwight Howard C 24.0 61.3 0.0 61.2 11.6 29.3 6.7 1.2 4.7
07-08 Steve Nash PG 22.3 52.5 46.7 59.7 1.2 9.1 38.1 0.8 0.1
06-07 Steve Nash PG 23.0 57.3 45.3 61.3 1.3 9.2 38.7 0.9 0.1
83-84 Magic Johnson PG 19.5 57.4 22.1 56.9 4.5 15.4 35.0 2.3 1.0
71-72 Tom Boerwinkle C 13.7 44.9 32.0 45.0 11.8 31.7 15.5 1.6 4.1
11-12 Marcus Camby C 11.5 41.6 0.0 41.6 12.4 31.0 11.2 1.7 3.7
11-12 Manu Ginobili SG 22.7 61.6 41.4 61.8 2.5 12.9 23.3 1.4 0.9
11-12 Stephen Curry PG 24.1 51.4 45.7 58.3 2.2 10.7 24.1 2.4 0.6
07-08 Carl Landry PF 19.2 61.7 0.0 61.6 14.7 16.7 3.9 1.1 0.6
88-89 Greg Kite C 8.9 53.0 0.0 53.3 7.0 19.8 3.8 0.8 2.1
91-92 Jeff Ruland C 13.7 52.4 0.0 52.6 8.5 15.9 3.0 1.5 1.1
94-95 Tracy Murray SF 21.8 36.8 42.0 51.9 1.1 10.1 3.1 1.5 0.8

The first five listed were my starters.  While that five is on the floor, I'm looking at a combined 134 ast%.  Not too shabby.  Furthermore, all of the guys who actually shoot the ball are relatively high efg% guys.  Here's what actually happened:

Name GP GS Min Pts FG% 3Pt% FT% OReb Reb Ast TO Stl Blk PF
09-10 Dwight Howard 82 82 35.5 23.2 67.0 9.1 62.7 3.3 13.3 1.8 4.1 1.4 3.6 3.2
06-07 Steve Nash 82 82 33.4 20.6 58.3 48.2 92.3 0.2 2.6 8.7 3.7 1.0 0.2 1.5
07-08 Steve Nash 82 82 34.6 20.4 55.9 52.4 89.6 0.3 2.7 9.0 3.6 0.8 0.1 1.4
83-84 Magic Johnson 82 82 32.1 15.6 61.6 32.4 78.2 1.1 5.5 7.7 3.9 2.1 0.7 2.0
2013 James Siggers (R) 82 0 14.9 7.8 48.6 15.8 66.7 0.6 1.6 1.6 1.8 0.8 0.1 1.4
11-12 Manu Ginobili 82 0 12.3 7.4 53.7 45.6 86.3 0.2 1.8 2.6 1.2 0.6 0.2 0.7
11-12 Stephen Curry 82 0 11.4 6.5 51.3 45.1 86.7 0.2 1.4 2.6 1.0 0.8 0.1 0.6
71-72 Tom Boerwinkle 82 82 25.2 6.5 44.6 14.7 62.9 2.3 9.9 2.6 1.3 1.1 2.2 2.9
07-08 Carl Landry 78 0 9.3 5.0 61.1 0.0 56.5 1.0 2.7 0.3 0.5 0.3 0.1 0.9
2013 Ryan Ziler (R) 72 0 6.8 4.7 55.8 0.0 82.0 0.3 1.0 0.9 0.6 0.3 0.1 0.5
2013 Melvin Hodge (R) 81 0 12.4 4.6 48.4 42.9 71.3 1.2 3.7 0.5 0.7 0.6 0.3 1.6
11-12 Marcus Camby 82 0 13.9 2.5 41.7 16.7 45.1 1.3 5.5 1.2 0.7 0.7 1.2 1.0
91-92 Jeff Ruland 4 0 10.0 2.3 23.1 0 75.0 1.3 2.8 0.3 1.0 0.3 0.5 1.8
94-95 Tracy Murray 3 0 5.7 2.0 25.0 40.0 0 0.0 0.3 0.0 0.7 0.0 0.0 0.0
TOTALS 82     124.4 56.5 46.1 75.1 11.9 51.6 39.5 22.9 10.3 9.0 17.6
OPPONENTS 82     107.6 46.0 34.5 74.3 12.7 42.0 28.1 19.0 13.6 6.1 19.4

As you can see, I got pretty good bumps for my starters that shoot the ball (Boerwinkle had almost no difference).  The reserves, for the most part, received a slight boost but nothing to write home about. Check out the following spread sheet to see how these numbers translated into advanced stats as well as the actual boost in efg% I received:


Sim efg% vs Real efg% Spreadsheet


As you can see, my main four scorers received boosts of 8.21% to 9.99% in their efg%.  That's pretty awesome.  My main two scorers off the bench also received a small bump (over 2%), while Landry lost a little.  Boerwinkle & Camby were almost negligible.  Murray & Ruland suffered huge losses, but that's to be expected because they only played a few games at huge minutes, far surpassing their rl/82 fga.

The team, overall, received a 4.69% boost in efg%.  Considering that I was not in a strong division, that doesn't seem like a very significant boost.  I did win 68 games, but again, I was not in a strong division and drafted enough boards to be dominant in that aspect (and somewhat make up for the extremely high turnovers:  I averaged 2.9 more turnovers per game than my opponent but garnered 9.4 more boards per game as a counter balance.)

Now I wonder:  How does the team do if you take out (say) Magic & insert 88-89 Worm?  The team will still have more than 100 ast% in its starting five but will also be rocking better glass control, better defense & less turnovers.

Lots to think about.

Please refrain from posting in this subject with false information & from trolling the thread.


WARNING:  Ignore anything smokey57 posts in this thread.  He is ignorant and posts many crack-brained theories of his as fact when, in fact, he doesn't know what he's talking about.  You have been warned.




5/19/2013 7:27 PM
I noticed a few teams benefit from having everyone on the court pass effectively.
Have you noticed effective passing forwards helping more than say having a Stockton at PG and SG?
5/24/2013 6:53 PM
it's irrelevant the position played.


PS - the team got squashed by tadmand in the playoffs.  Crazy ast% is still ringless.

5/24/2013 7:52 PM
Ash, you pretty much max'ed the ast bump out, looks good. It's hard to get a balanced team over 35 apg. I'd only change the 07 Stockton clone, there are plenty of gaurds to easily replace him with. I would look for more ast in the front court, if anything, Lanier has better ast than Howard. Boerwinkle is a great pick for PF. Nice job though.
5/24/2013 8:12 PM
I don't think it's a "craze", it's a solid basketball sratagy and most likely here to stay. The real trick to the ast bump is this; on my ATBA champion team the players all approximate their RL points per game stat's but the FG% is 2-6 % points higher than RL. By not exceeding RL PPG your team never go into shooting penalty player or team. Done correctly this stops the slumps that a team pushing PPG will often see around mid season as SIM corrects for pushing PPG. There appears to be no penalty for being more effeicent. The ast bump simply increase the conversion rate of the standard number of possessions. The basketball stratagy is that the extra passes frees up more uncontested shots resulting in a higher FG%.
5/24/2013 8:17 PM
The ast bump works best when you have your ast% spread across the floor, solid passing big men give a boost to the bump.
5/24/2013 8:45 PM
Posted by ashamael on 5/24/2013 6:53:00 PM (view original):
it's irrelevant the position played.


PS - the team got squashed by tadmand in the playoffs.  Crazy ast% is still ringless.

Crazy ast% has given me four rings. 3 in open leagues, and one theme league. It works.
5/25/2013 1:31 AM
ben, what the ast% in the starters, on Crazy ast%? I just drafted a team with 89% in the starting 5, the first 7 have 19,679min's @ 108ast%. I can keep +80ast% on the floor for 48 minutes. I think this should bump the FG% significantly.
5/25/2013 3:17 AM
smokey, I'd appreciate you not giving bad advice in this thread.  Your analysis is just... off... as usual.
5/25/2013 3:19 AM
Posted by benhoidal on 5/24/2013 8:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ashamael on 5/24/2013 6:53:00 PM (view original):
it's irrelevant the position played.


PS - the team got squashed by tadmand in the playoffs.  Crazy ast% is still ringless.

Crazy ast% has given me four rings. 3 in open leagues, and one theme league. It works.
Define crazy ast%.  I define it as beyond 100%.  It doesn't become extremely noticeable in my findings until you get past 120%.  It's only slightly noticeable before that.  This team had 134% between the starters.
5/25/2013 1:33 PM
Ash, here's some facts.

Player                                         ppg/fg% (RL)                     ppg/fg% (SIM)
JJ White                                      19.5 / 45.7                          19.1 / 49.3
B. Lanier                                     24.3 / 51.0                          23.5 / 52.8
G. Gervin                                    23.4 / 47.4                           21.8 / 48.5
M. Green                                    17.2 / 54.2                           19.1 / 59.6
L. Steele                                      9.4 / 54.8                             8.1 / 60.7 

C. Perry                                      13.8 / 47.7                           12.2 / 52.4
J. Price                                       17.2 / 44.2                             9.9 / 50.7
C. Edge                                       5.8 / 50.7                              5.5 / 52.0
B. Olsen                                      4.4 / 48.0                              2.8 / 53.3
L. Nelson                                   11.6 / 45.2                            3.1 / 50.0

Note - the players that are below their RL PPG are playing fewer minutes than IRL. Also, I'm banking mins/pts in my starter to cash in @ the AS break in hopes of avoiding the slump my teams always experience in the 3rd quarter of the season.
5/25/2013 1:45 PM (edited)
Teams w/l record ATBA season# 7:   66-16 (1 ring)
                                 ATBA season# 8:  16-1  (hopeful)
5/25/2013 1:46 PM
I never have below 120% for my starters, and I shoot for never below 120% on the court. My players usually have high efg% and high ast% with my bigs hopefully with reasonably nice dreb%. Most of my teams end up leading the league (or coming close) in ppg, fg%, 3pt%, and Assists. So far, I have done a lot of tinkering with it and I am trying to get my turnovers down, while keeping everything else up, as I usually lead the league in turnovers too. 

I recently beat Austin in a championship series and he kept complaining that he would have 20 more field goal attempts than me yet I would somehow win by 20. It frustrated the heck out of him, but I was shooting over 60% from both 2 and 3 in that series with a lot of 3's. 

Ash, I always appreciate your advice, as your usage thread single handedly turned me from a bad owner to a relatively competitive one. Since then, I have done a lot of researching things on my own and would love to share some of my findings.
5/25/2013 4:00 PM (edited)
smokey - progressives are not indicative of sim facts.  Progressives, as I & many other owners have already explained to you, have such a limited player pool that almost everyone exceeds their RL numbers.  I have a progressive right now where everyone is playing out of their minds.  I'm using some of the things I've learned in other leagues to set this up, but it is not indicative of anything.  Stop this.  It's bad enough that you spam your whack-brained theories in the commentary threads, but I won't tolerate your inaccuracies in this thread that's meant to discuss valid tendencies with actual proof & numbers, not just your misunderstandings of the sim engine.
5/25/2013 3:58 PM
ben, I believe you won my division and the league in one of my earlier ast% attempts come to think of it.  Killer Watermelons?  Was that your squad?

It's a valid strategy... and it's worked well for me... just haven't gotten any rings out of it.

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