11/2/2009 9:43 PM
They have abandoned the NFL and NBA sims.

Even Hockey got an update this year.

The site is dying on the vine.
11/3/2009 9:42 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By jakotay on 11/02/2009The biggest factor is still the economy. People have less to spend and things like this get axed.

That's a weak copout for WIS I think...it doesn't absolve the fact that the games are bad. Also, the masses were leaving when the economy was still good, so...?
11/3/2009 2:58 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By jakotay on 11/02/2009The biggest factor is still the economy. People have less to spend and things like this get axed.

$10 is cheap, imo, for more than a month of simming. I don't think the economy is a major factor on this site.
11/3/2009 3:49 PM
Well it is for me. 12% of the population is looking for work (20% here in Michigan if you count those not eligible for unemployment benefits), me included. No one is arguing if $10 is a fair price. Thats the short-sided view IMO. I see it as that $10 is more important to feeding the kids, retaining a home, keeping the car running. More people are saving since so many fear getting axed. People are not playing period... the reason doesn't matter... if I was working I'd have more teams. I am not trying to find a copout for WIS. Just giving my reasons for not playing more.

I don't disagree the game is in need of improvements... but I am still here. nc thinks the sim needs work but he is paying for the game. So the reason varies from person to person.... but under no circumstances is anyone wrong for citing the reason(s) that applies to them.

So i agree the masses were departing before the Merger. Increased a bit after the merger. And continue today for various reasons from customer support, to the economy, to the simulations themselves. For me.... the economy is the biggest reason I am not playing more teams. Its not like I live at home and am not married with 3 kids to feed and insure, and a couple cars to fuel up.

Its nice to ask for and expect things.... but if you don't get them, move on. Find something else until the product is what you want. The constant berating has probably cost WIS users as well....
11/3/2009 4:51 PM
Trust me, its no skin off my back if WIS never improves anything...I come to this site for other reasons than playing their sims...I think the last 4 months shows that. I'll probably still play every once in a while and given the state of the sims, everyone has a right to ***** about what they see wrong with the games...you're going to blame people leaving on that? Really? HA...if the games weren't ****, people wouldn't be griping to begin with AND if WIS doesn't like what some people say on here, then ban them for life. WIS doesn't even believe that people's complaints have driven customers away.

$10 is cheap Coley...I'm in the same boat as you, jobless (without all the family), but ncmusician was just trying to say that $10 is reasonable even in this terrible economy. Just because we're in the dumps doesn't mean other people aren't spending money, having/getting good jobs, paid well, etc. What I'm saying is is that I think more people have for non-economic reasons than economic reasons, and that's a problem, especially from a business standpoint.
11/3/2009 5:22 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 9/16/2009
Sorry guys, but this is again getting anti-constructive. When that happens there's nothing useful that's going to come out of the discussion. I have your feedback throughout this thread and I'll post an update on our plans when I have more info.
last known seble sighting (7 weeks ago) - I sure hope he's ok
11/3/2009 8:37 PM
Just curious. Was the last major update of the SIM engine itself in May 2008? To be followed by the reduction of salaries and defense a few months later...
11/3/2009 9:01 PM
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11/14/2009 5:03 AM
"If you should have any suggestions on how we can improve WhatIfSports.com, please let us know!"

That's the last line in the league recap emails. How.. ironic. Is that the right word?
11/14/2009 9:39 AM
great list chester
11/14/2009 10:28 AM
what i dont understand is this: customer support still responds to my inquiries, and they do it relatively quickly and professionally (technical stuff), and given that, there's still someone manning the ship... but these are sim engines, right? it's not like they need oil changes and tune-ups, they pretty much run themselves. i could be wrong, but the sim engine does run itself... so, what are the sebles and tinmans doing?

they don't respond to forums, and they dont post their intentions, and if they are working on improvements, then why not say so and tell us what they are doing? instead, we never hear from them. i'm sorry if seble hates to get into the forums because he gets berated, but, boo-hoo, man-up and say, "present". i'm still here and this is what i'm working on. but no, we get the silent treatment.

who do u give the silent treatment to? u are silent to the people around u that u dont like. is there something i'm missing here? we are not liked.

yeah, i agree the lost souls who have abandoned the nba have done so because of the economy, or from a deteriorating sim engine, or lack of respect from customer support or for personal reasons, but i'll tell ya what... the biggest and quickest decline of wis ownership (in the nba) has been due from being ignored.

after the last (absurd) update, it seemed that one forum (oh yeah, this 27 page monster) where owners complained of salaries being out of whack, def hilarities and emphasis on 3 pt shooting, and then admin (seble) telling us to list our complaints, is where the ignoring of us truly began. used to be monkee and seble took potshots at each other, and, at least seble was engaged then, but after that last update, the truly cold shoulder began. is seble pouting? and if so, does he not have a supervisor who he is accountable to? and if so, doesn't that supervisor follow up on seble's work?

why the hell did this intentional ignoring of paying customers happen? who's friggin' idea was that? like i said, customer support still responds to tickets, so, someone is home, but they're not answering the door. to me, this is the REAL problem in the current state of affairs in wis nba. indifference. that's poison.

11/14/2009 3:57 PM
Quote: Originally posted by scudmissle on 11/14/2009what i dont understand is this: customer support still responds to my inquiries, and they do it relatively quickly and professionally (technical stuff), and given that, there's still someone manning the ship... but these are sim engines, right? it's not like they need oil changes and tune-ups, they pretty much run themselves. i could be wrong, but the sim engine does run itself... so, what are the sebles and tinmans doing? they don't respond to forums, and they dont post their intentions, and if they are working on improvements, then why not say so and tell us what they are doing? instead, we never hear from them. i'm sorry if seble hates to get into the forums because he gets berated, but, boo-hoo, man-up and say, "present". i'm still here and this is what i'm working on. but no, we get the silent treatment.who do u give the silent treatment to? u are silent to the people around u that u dont like. is there something i'm missing here? we are not liked. yeah, i agree the lost souls who have abandoned the nba have done so because of the economy, or from a deteriorating sim engine, or lack of respect from customer support or for personal reasons, but i'll tell ya what... the biggest and quickest decline of wis ownership (in the nba) has been due from being ignored.after the last (absurd) update, it seemed that one forum (oh yeah, this 27 page monster) where owners complained of salaries being out of whack, def hilarities and emphasis on 3 pt shooting, and then admin (seble) telling us to list our complaints, is where the ignoring of us truly began. used to be monkee and seble took potshots at each other, and, at least seble was engaged then, but after that last update, the truly cold shoulder began. is seble pouting? and if so, does he not have a supervisor who he is accountable to? and if so, doesn't that supervisor follow up on seble's work? why the hell did this intentional ignoring of paying customers happen? who's friggin' idea was that? like i said, customer support still responds to tickets, so, someone is home, but they're not answering the door. to me, this is the REAL problem in the current state of affairs in wis nba. indifference. that's poison. 

Absolutely well said. You've eloquently stated every point I've tried to make in this thread.
11/17/2009 5:04 PM
Quote: Originally posted by earlmantis on 10/18/2009Beating a dead horse here but it can't be said enough. Defensive effectiveness for what you pay is absurd. I remember facing teams just last year that would pride themselves on drafting all 90+ defensive rated players while still retaining solid offensive efficiency and those teams being tough as hell to beat. Nowadays go ahead and load up and defense and watch a 3 pt bombin gteam walk all over your *** and drop 15-20 3 pointers a game while beating you by 20. It sucks it really does, this SIM used to be alot of fun, mixing and matching DIFFERENT players everytime around. Damn I won 2....yes 2 titles playing primarily SLOWDOWN, they were teams built heavily around rebounders and 52%-54% shooters, where would that get me now? Can the cookie cutter be beaten sure it can but the fun is taken out of the SIM when half the games you play are ag those same teams built around the cookie cutters and the owners who act like they had no clue that their team was "cookie cutter." Nice job buddy you're owner rating is in the top 25 because you run the same squad out there everytime, congrats that means something around here....oh wait

Nice to know it isn't just me. I will play a group of guys I like a few times to see if I can repeat a title run...but I love to switch it up. Now, I can not play defense. I put good defensive teams out - and get torched every night. Ugh. I can run and gun all day long. But I prefer changeups...
11/17/2009 5:07 PM
Quote: Originally posted by longtallbrad on 10/22/2009

Having said that, it would be nice if WIS could be responsive enough to put up guardrails against some things that should never happen (like Wilt fouling out). But my gripes about the sim, when I care to express them, have more to do with player position effectiveness, the evident disconnect between the effect of certain player functions and how they are valued in the salary structure (see: defense), and the murky effects of defensive positioning.

My biggest pet peeve - which I've mentioned before and no one else seems to care about, but I'll say it again anyway - is the lack of some kind of player rating for different offensive schemes. Guys like Bob Cousy, Jason Kidd, Magic Johnson and Steve Nash should have an advantage in fast break mode over guys like Terrell Brandon and Mark Jackson. Same with Bill Walton and Bill Russell over Dikembe Mutombo and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. It's an important real-life variable that doesn't seem to be reflected in any algorithm, but the answer I've gotten from other owners (I haven't heard WIS staff comment on this) is that it would have to be a qualitative judgment so it'll never happen. Still, it is worked into other simulation programs, and I'll keep my fingers crossed here.


I would love to see that. LOVE IT. And it shouldn't be that hard to implement. Right now, I don't see how changing the pace can consistently help a team anymore...
11/17/2009 8:07 PM
How would you justify how a guy like Rip Hamilton would've played on a fast break team? How do you give him a tempo rating? He's been one of the quickest 2 guards in the league his whole career yet has played the majority of the time on one of the slowest paced teams.

At the same time, Magic would excel in slow down mode (if the Lakers were that kind of team back then). so how do you give ratings like that? If someone can explain, I will back you up on this idea.

Regardless, there are too many other things that need to be done w/ the sim before this.
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