All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > Joe Dimaggio Thread: The Screenplay
6/3/2013 5:22 AM (edited)
1. this is the first time I have ever seen this thread
2.boogerlips, this is really brilliant, my compliments
3. hitting .400 AND hitting in a LOT of consecutive games are both hard to do. Neither has been done since. I think they must be hard to do.
4. Dimaggio could not deal with having a wife who was more famous than he was. And he was REALLY famous
5. Give them back the war years - and in Williams' case also the Korean War years and I think Ted stays in till he breaks 714, even if it means hitting .286 a couple times, and Dimaggio probably another 150 or so homers and raises his lifetime average which is already quite high. How high would Williams' lifetime average have been - at first much higher than .344 but 714 would be more within reach than .367 so he would have shot for that record and ended up a little below his real life lifetime average. 
6. If Dimaggio had not called Mickey Mantle off that hit by Willie Mays in the Series, leading to that knee injury Mantle breaks Ted Williams' record for lifetime homers.
7. If it had not been for segregation none of this would have happened: Satchel Paige stops Dimaggio's streak well before 56, and Williams hits in George Brett territory. Josh Gibson breaks 714. 
8. Take 20-25% of the best pitchers and fielders out of the major leagues and I think George Brett, Pete Rose, Tony Gwynn (yes I know this is self-contradictory), Rod Carew, Don Mattingly and Wade Boggs hit .400 or maybe hit for 56 games. Do this for racist reasons and you have 1941. 
9. As a corollary, all achievements before the end of segregation in any given field should be taken with a grain of salt. Babe Ruth probably has Willie Mays' numbers lifetime, Ty Cobb hits 30 points lower lifetime.
Ruth may still be greater than Mays, despite Mays' enormous advantage in fielding and baserunning cause Ruth also pitched. As batters they then come out even. But this is true in all fields: 20% of all white folks before segregation was ended practically (meaning at the point where one could say that at least a realistic chance of a person of color making it into the same profession without externally-imposed prohibitions existed - this may not yet exist in many fields of life) were in their professional levels thanks to artificially and unjustly lowered competition.

Thus 8 or 9 Presidents of the United States should have never made it (among the African American Presidents we did not have but should have: Frederick Douglass, WEB DuBois, Septima Clark,Ida B. Wells,  Martin Luther King Jr.,). But it is true of the lawyers, judges, business executives, and yes, even college professors. Some us are where we would not be had we had to face fair competition from women and people of other "racial" backgrounds. Maybe even me (born 1960). Who knows ? We should ask ourselves. And we should view  baseball records as a learning tool. The best of their times were among the best, and their records are inflated by pitching to or batting against 20% minor leaguers masquerading as big leaguers, camoflauged by their "whiteness". 

This has been a public service announcement. 

6/3/2013 7:01 AM
Supplemental (sorry to be long-winded - as usual :-) - but at least I have a shot at winning boogerlip's award for the most long-winded post - been a while since I managed that). 

I know these are hard arguments to digest, but this is the real history of our country and this is the reality of baseball as well.

No one REALLY ever hit .400. If Hornsby hit .424 without having to face roughly 20% of the best pitchers, AAA level pitchers having been substituted for them for racial reasons, then if we were to deduct 20% from that average we would take away 84 points and he hit .340.

Except that is also unjust - Hornsby would have gotten some hits off even the Bob Gibsons and Satchel Paiges of his own time, just not that many. So let's give a ballpark estimate by halving that 20% number and we have 42 points taken off of .424 and so he really hit the equivalent of .382. A great season. Not .400. Ted Williams hit .366 in 1941. Maybe Dimaggio hits in 50 instead of 56 games, but the methodology does not translate since timing is everything in a streak - face Satchel Paige in game 43 and Keeler's record maybe stands - or maybe Joe D. does get a hit, face him in game 57 and things remain as are. It's not quite the same as .400. 

As for the larger issue, to put the baseball stuff in perspective, 15-20% of the smartest people in America were prevented from learning to read by law and penalty of death from around 1666 (Bacon's Rebellion) to 1865 (when Reconstruction built the first public schools in the South) - and since many less affluent whites in the South  also had no access to public schooling as a direct result of the same system of slavery, we should take into consideration a literate population prevented from furthering their education as well. So what would another 25 to 30% of the smartest Americans have achieved ? Maybe a loved one cured of cancer, cause we've cured it. Maybe cities on the moon. Maybe solar power and no global warming. We don't know. Take away thousands of potential Thomas Edisons. Then see. So we need to see these hitting streaks in historical perspective. I think if you subtract 71 (10% using the methodology above) from 714 and get 643, Willie Mays broke Babe Ruth's career home run record before Henry Aaron did. 
6/5/2013 11:39 AM
You have to have read the original argument, which went on for 10+ pages to really appreciate this, but ya when I was unemployed for about 6months in 2009 I had time to be pretty creative. Just think, if the Bush and Obama brothers hadn't had such anti-jobs policies and stimulus packages, this screenplay would never have been written!
6/6/2013 7:28 AM
Well put BG ! 

Unemployment Insurance, greatest invention of the 20th century. 
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All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > Joe Dimaggio Thread: The Screenplay

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