All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > Post-Update Fielding???
10/5/2009 3:31 PM
with the changes being made in the SIM engine for fielding and the pending inclusion of normalized range and fielding, how differently will the old-time guys perform?

have just started drafting for a dual-season progressive (1901/1961) and wondered if the 1901 no leather/hands-of-stone fielders of the day might be more draftable and playable in the post-update days.

any constructive input and discussion would be greatly appreciated!
10/5/2009 3:43 PM
That's the point of the update, so presumably better deadball fielders will become decent fielders while really awful deadball fielders will become somewhat less awful fielders...
10/5/2009 6:22 PM
I'm glad they're making changes and I hope they turn out to be improvements, but I've never found the weakness of the ancients' fielding to be a WIS drawback.

There is not that much information available regarding the fielding talents of any but the most prominent of the old-timers. And there is no way to know which of those old players would have benefitted the most from modern gloves and manicured surfaces. One guy with little range and iron hands might have turned into an A/C- third sacker while another guy with the same attributes would still prove to be Eddy Scissorhands and not worth better than D+/D+. There is no way to know, so it will be intriguing to see how WIS handles it.
10/5/2009 9:24 PM
I am very curious but I honestly have no idea.

For example, in 1908 Honus Wagner was at .943 for a shortstop and the league fielding percentage was .929. That means his error rate was 70% of the league average (57/81).

In 1998, Nomar Garciaparra was at .962 for a shortstop and the league average was .972. That means he was 136% of the league average (38/28).

So do they go to the extreme and make it a straight adjustment? Say a nominal fielding percentage of .970, and go from there? That would put Honus at .979 (error rate 0.03 * 70% = error rate of .021) and Nomar at .959.

Or do they do something less extreme to also take into account their real fielding percentages? If you took Honus' real error rate (0.057) and multiplied it by .7, you'd get about 0.040, making his adjusted fielding percentage .960. Doing a similar calculation for Nomar, you'd get about 0.052, making his adjusted fielding percentage 0.948. Nomar still gets worse but Honus doesn't become the best fielder of all time.
10/6/2009 7:43 AM
I get the fielding issue but personally I thought the fielding issues with the old-time players evened out their hitting advantage over the modern day guys. I kinda liked that if you wanted to benefit from Tip O'Neil's killer offense you also had to deal with an immense amount of errors. If the salaries are adjusted enough maybe it will offset that advantage but I'm not so sure.
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10/6/2009 7:50 PM
This change makes me really nervous as well. When you combine the new RFF with the changes to RRF, niether of which we understand yet, I think we're going to see some extreme inbalances in fielding. It's going to be some rough going until we all get it figured out. I can forsee a return to fielding being a major cookie-maker in OL situations.
10/6/2009 8:34 PM
All I really wanted was to be able to search by numbers instead of letters. We'll see. If it works and the game stays somewhat balanced, I'll be good with it.

10/6/2009 10:36 PM
but the salaries are going to change too

so you never know



i expect a big uproar



which is exactly when you numbers guys shine. you ***** the fastest because you comprehend the fastest, and about the time the rest of us start complaining, you have already groped your way to an advantage. You quiet down quick is my experience.



we will all enjoy it i am absolutely sure
10/6/2009 10:40 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By JohnGPF on 10/06/2009...i don't like the new FLD system as i understand it...i preferred an idea that tied FLD to the pitcher on the mound...1908 pitcher, every one fielded like 1908 fielders; 2008 pitcher, everyone fielded like 2008 fielders..
So the player's real life fielding percentage and range would be meaningless?
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10/7/2009 1:54 PM
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10/7/2009 2:16 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By jjgreen14 on 10/07/2009
Is that the system you were in favor for that you were describing there or the new FLD system as you understand it? If not the new system, what do you think the new system will be?

Thank
...that's the type of system i'm in favor of...not sure how the new system will function in practice...FLD will probably function the same, players will just have new numbers...what the new +/- distributions will be is anybody's guess...but if modern players, who generally have lower RRFs than players from earlier eras to start with, suddenly see their FLD drop and their minus plays soar, that could turn player selection on its head...
10/7/2009 2:24 PM
I'm curious to see how big of an impact it will have on the TOC teams.

Most of the teams will have gotten there through the old system with a lot of cookies. Now suddenly they will all be performing pretty differently in the new system.

10/7/2009 5:36 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By JohnGPF on 10/07/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By ncmusician_7 on 10/06/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By JohnGPF on 10/06/2009
...i don't like the new FLD system as i understand it...i preferred an idea that tied FLD to the pitcher on the mound...1908 pitcher, every one fielded like 1908 fielders; 2008 pitcher, everyone fielded like 2008 fielders...
So the player's real life fielding percentage and range would be meaningless?
...no, both would be normalized to the fielding/range of the league-season of the pitcher on the mound...honus would be a great fielding SS for both christy mathewson and greg maddux, but for christy he'd be fielding like a great deadball era SS and for maddux he'd be fielding like a great modern SS...
So ur saying their normalized FLD% and RRF would change from game to game (and possibly within the game) depending on the pitcher?
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