All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Gold Glover Jeter, Best SS Evah!!!, robbed of MVP
3/13/2013 2:14 PM
Posted by toddcommish on 3/13/2013 2:09:00 PM (view original):
Sustaining a high level of performance in the postseason is pretty damn good considering you're likely hitting against the best pitchers of your league, and possibly the best pitchers of the other league as well.  Jeter is a slam-dunk Hall-of-Famer, and one of the top 5 hitting shortstops of all-time. 

Based on the media and slobbering adulation of the casual fan (aka, women and MikeT), he's the Tom Brady of MLB.  He gets way too much attention for just walking around town with supermodels, and his occasional good plays are replayed like they're manna from heaven.

Add LeBron and Sidney Crosby and you'll have the Mt Rushmore of ESPN-knob-slobbering.
I've used the Brady/Jeter comparison before.   Shockingly, Pats fans(who are just smarter Sux fans) always say "Oh, no way!!!!  Jeter is way overrated but Tom is not.  He's like a Football God!!!!"

I assume they say that while jerking it to a Brady Uggs ad.
3/13/2013 3:12 PM
Brady, Jeter, LeBron, and Sid-the-Kid are all great players.  They're just overexposed by the networks.

Joe Montana is the only true GOD.
3/13/2013 3:18 PM
I assume you said that while jerking it to a Montana Joint Juice ad.
3/13/2013 3:23 PM
Naw, I don't jerk it to GOD.  It wouldn't seem right.

However, Kate Upton in the SI swimsuit issue is another story.
3/13/2013 5:52 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/13/2013 2:02:00 PM (view original):
If Jeter played LF, he's less of a lock.  But he plays SS.
If we admit to ourselves that his defensive skills are far more appropriate to a LF than a SS, where does that leave us?
3/13/2013 5:55 PM
I mean, basically I've used the counterargument to that whenever I've discusses Jeter - if he were actually a good, or even average, defensive SS, then I'd think he deserved the first-round induction he's going to receive.  But given that his true defensive skills would fit much better at a COF position, I'd want to see first-ballot COF numbers to put him in that quickly.  Or even first-ballot CF, which maybe he has.

I would vote for him on the first ballot because I think he belongs in.  I also would vote for everyone I wanted to go in on their first ballots.  I think the whole concept of "this guy isn't good enough, but 5 years from now he will be" is just ridiculous.  But given the way that the voting does go in the real world, I think Jeter is far less Hall-worthy than a good number of guys who didn't go in on their first ballots, so I think it's silly that he will go in with a huge vote total.
3/13/2013 6:14 PM
I think if you put most LFers at SS, they struggle mightily. Jeter isn't good at SS, but he held his own.
3/13/2013 7:21 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/13/2013 6:14:00 PM (view original):
I think if you put most LFers at SS, they struggle mightily. Jeter isn't good at SS, but he held his own.
I guess that really depends on what you consider "held his own."

Over the last ten seasons (we don't have anything better than total zone prior to 2002), 26 shortstops have played at least 6000 innings at SS. Over that period, Jeter has a UZR of  negative 64 -- dead last.  Granted, he played more innings (~14,000) than everyone but Jimmy Rollins on that list. Still, if you use UZR per 150 instead, he only improves to 23rd. Rollins has a UZR of 51 over almost the same amount of innings. That's a swing of over 100 runs or about one team win a year for the last ten years.

He's cost the Yankees a lot of runs with his glove over the years. Obviously he's more than made up for those with his bat, but the real question is would the Yankees have been better off with someone else at short and Jeter at another position? I don't know. but he's definitely a Hall of Famer.
3/14/2013 8:37 AM
Posted by dahsdebater on 3/13/2013 5:55:00 PM (view original):
I mean, basically I've used the counterargument to that whenever I've discusses Jeter - if he were actually a good, or even average, defensive SS, then I'd think he deserved the first-round induction he's going to receive.  But given that his true defensive skills would fit much better at a COF position, I'd want to see first-ballot COF numbers to put him in that quickly.  Or even first-ballot CF, which maybe he has.

I would vote for him on the first ballot because I think he belongs in.  I also would vote for everyone I wanted to go in on their first ballots.  I think the whole concept of "this guy isn't good enough, but 5 years from now he will be" is just ridiculous.  But given the way that the voting does go in the real world, I think Jeter is far less Hall-worthy than a good number of guys who didn't go in on their first ballots, so I think it's silly that he will go in with a huge vote total.
WTF happened to "probably good enough"?   Did you realize how stupid that sounded?
3/14/2013 9:21 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 3/13/2013 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/13/2013 6:14:00 PM (view original):
I think if you put most LFers at SS, they struggle mightily. Jeter isn't good at SS, but he held his own.
I guess that really depends on what you consider "held his own."

Over the last ten seasons (we don't have anything better than total zone prior to 2002), 26 shortstops have played at least 6000 innings at SS. Over that period, Jeter has a UZR of  negative 64 -- dead last.  Granted, he played more innings (~14,000) than everyone but Jimmy Rollins on that list. Still, if you use UZR per 150 instead, he only improves to 23rd. Rollins has a UZR of 51 over almost the same amount of innings. That's a swing of over 100 runs or about one team win a year for the last ten years.

He's cost the Yankees a lot of runs with his glove over the years. Obviously he's more than made up for those with his bat, but the real question is would the Yankees have been better off with someone else at short and Jeter at another position? I don't know. but he's definitely a Hall of Famer.
He's 23rd out of 26, but if you put every ML hitter at SS, I'd guess he'd finish in the top 10%.  Aside from catcher, SS is the most difficult and grueling position to play, and to do as well offensively as he has is a huge accomplishment.
3/14/2013 9:27 AM
Absolutely. My point is that maybe with all the resources the Yanks had they could have put someone else at SS and Jeter at a different position and have been better off.
3/14/2013 9:32 AM
I'll disagree.  They'd rather Jeter at SS and a power bat in LF, than Jeter in LF and a good glove/so-so bat at SS.
3/14/2013 9:34 AM
Unless you're suggesting they'd always have a star SS through free agency.  In which case I'd disagree with that idea too.  That's tough.
3/14/2013 9:55 AM
I guess I'm just imagining the pre-Arod third basemen and the pre-cano second basemen and see Jeter as an upgrade. But I think you're right about SS, there are very few who would have been an upgrade there and acquiring them would have been difficult.
3/14/2013 9:56 AM
jeter's value has never really been in his glove. it's been in his bat, leadership, etc. so he's most valuable at ss as it's the most premium position in baseball, i think.
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All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Gold Glover Jeter, Best SS Evah!!!, robbed of MVP

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