All Forums > SimLeague Basketball > SimLeague Basketball > Usage - How do I use this stat to build teams?
2/24/2012 11:40 PM
They never pin anything useful in this forum.

Hell, they never show their faces in this forum.
4/4/2012 4:20 PM
BUMP - sorry, I forget
4/27/2012 11:39 AM
have a question about creb What is it and how is it calculated?
4/27/2012 1:36 PM
combined orbd% and drbd% for 5 on the floor - not elegant nor exact by itself but gives you an idea of each squad's rebounding strength
4/27/2012 4:25 PM
I also use it as a breaking point for how I grade players.  For example... I'll take a guy with a mediocre efg% and 5th or 6th tier usage who has 45%+ creb that plays PF or C.  But I won't take that guy if he only has 35% creb.  But I will take a 35% creb guy at the 4 or 5 if he has an efg% of 55% or better - especially if he has a high usage.  Take, for example, 90-91 David Robinson.  12 orb + 23 drb = 35 creb.  He's a third tier usage guy with an efg% of 55, so that's a stud.  It also depends on the rest of your team's make-up, however.  Got a lot of defensive boards in the back court?  You can afford a guy like the Admiral.  Got a SF with a huge oreb%?  Then you can afford to grab a guy with even less orb (but maybe you want more dreb, so you still look for a similar creb).

So yeah... creb is a quick & dirty way to evaluate a guy's rebounding prowess without having to always state two separate stats.  oreb & dreb are still more important depending on what your particular team needs.
4/28/2012 7:53 PM
Monk & Ash WIS should pay you as consultants.  Thanks for the insight and the subtle Admiral ex. lol
knowledge = success an age old formula and makes this a great game to play.  cap league draft is a kick
to follow.  Someday I'll figure out how to post pics to forum.
P.S. keep the reporter perspective coming great read.
4/28/2012 8:49 PM
Right click pic, copy image, right click in forum where you want to post, paste. If wis hired those two, we wouldn't have anything to complain about in these forums ;-) plus, they banned all forms of simians.......
5/11/2012 11:00 AM
I kind of like the usage tiering system (does that make me weird?). Obviously it isn't great that a 0.1 point difference in usage can make a player much less useful, but it adjusts for the fact that top-tier usage guys (Jordan, Kobe, etc) are able to get their offense even if you don't have other scorers on the court with them at any certain time (not over the course of the whole game, necessarily, though, due to the individual penalty).

If we were using 100% total usage as the baseline to avoid a penalty and you had Jordan with 33.3% usage and Pippen with 24.4% usage (like on the 96 Bulls) you'd need the other 3 guys to have 42.3% usage or 14.1% each in order to avoid a penalty. I know it isn't asking much from a player to have that usage rate, but I'm fairly confident Jordan + Pippen could run an efficient offense with any three other players (as long as at least one of those players could provide some spacing, but spacing is a separate issue in the sim). And if you set the required usage rate to avoid a penalty to be lower than 100%, you'd run into the problem that owners would only draft for 90% usage or whatever you set as the floor (which would be equally unrealistic).

So, long story short, what I'm saying is that I like the fact that there are two separate factors at work - a kind of "do you have an epic level scorer on the court? if so, you're okay. If not, do you have two guys who can create their own offense? then you're okay. If neither of these, I hope you have five well-balanced scorers out there". My only suggestion would be that it could incorporate assists into the tiering structure somehow (i.e. Steve Nash doesn't have a high usage rate, but having him on the floor should help offset the team penalty more than having some awkward big man on the court who has a similar usage rate to him).

5/12/2012 11:34 PM
Here's why the usage tiering system sucks.

You can have four guys at 22.0 usage & one guy at 17.4 usage... that's 105.4 usage... and only 9 usage points.  That will lead to a huge team possession penalty (although the individual penalties might not be too bad).

By the same token, you can have one 32.5 usage guy and 4 guys at 10% usage... that equals only 72.5 total usage but is 10 usage points - ie enough to beat the team possession penalty but most likely not enough to handle individual possession penalties.

The example you give with Jordan, Pippen and 3 guys at 14.1% would be 15 usage points - which is almost perfect to avoid both team & individual penalties).  I've had wonderful success with 12.5 to 14.5 usage points (and really, really notice a difference with 14.5).

To get 14.5... You can have 3 guys at 22.1, one guy at 17.5 and one guy at less than 13.7 (we'll say 10 again).  93.8% usage... again, we're talking about 12% less usage than my first example yet 5.5 more usage points.  That's pretty messed up.

Another way to get that 14.5?  32.5 + 22.1 + 13.8 + 13.8 + 10 = 92.4  But now we're talking a tier 1, a tier 3, 2 tier 5s & a tier 6.
Another?  27.2 + 22.1 + 17.5 + 17.5 + 10 = 94.3 usage points.

Another thing that's messed up about it:  A guy with 22.1 usage has the same impact as a guy with 27.1 usage.  A guy with 27.2 usage has the same impact as 32.4 (on the team).  Yet you're going to pay a ton more for the latter guys in each example than the former.
5/13/2012 1:23 PM
So some of this is counter-intuitive to me and probably explains why I suck at this.

I have this team currently in the playoffs:

PG 09/10 James
SG 88/89 Jordan
SF 84/85 Bird
PF 10/11 Howard
C 66/67 Wilt

BN 94/95 Stockton
BN 93/94 Rodman

Would the team be better with Stockton and Rodman starting?
5/13/2012 3:53 PM
Yeah.  Bench Jordan & Howard.  You'd been better off not spending all that extra $$ on salary but I'm assuming this is a really high cap league since you have who you have.
5/14/2012 1:26 PM
Hey Ash, would the usage points go up at all for a 47or 52M league? Wouldn't it be natural to have better players with slightly more usage?
5/14/2012 1:30 PM
relative caps dont change the penalty parameters
5/14/2012 4:55 PM
Posted by coachcroft on 5/14/2012 1:26:00 PM (view original):
Hey Ash, would the usage points go up at all for a 47or 52M league? Wouldn't it be natural to have better players with slightly more usage?
Felonius is right.  It's better to spend that extra money on specialists or better versions of what you are already using.  Instead of using that 2400 minute version of Rodman that shoots 43%, get that 3300 minute version that has a 56% efg%.  Instead of using the value MJ (96-97), go ahead and use the stud MJ (89-90).  Etc...
5/14/2012 6:39 PM
ash in our regressive league my team would have 24 usage points according to your system(starters only) is regressive league much different or is that going to ruin my tittle chances? 
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