All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > More Career Wins Tebow or Vince Young?
12/27/2011 9:31 PM
Both had enormous college successes and both have major flaws for being an NFL QB. For Vince Young there's a chance he may never have another NFL win, as he's 28 and his performance this season won't have many teams knocking down the door to sign him this offseason.

Tebow is a media darling and while he has pumped up the wins with quite a few 4th quarter comebacks, his overall performance is shaky to say the least.

Vince Young- 31 career NFL wins
Tim Tebow- 8 career NFL wins

Any postseason wins will count towards the total as well. Thoughts?
12/27/2011 9:32 PM
Tebow, easily. He's actually got a head screwed on straight. He may not be the ideal QB, but he's a winner. And that is what counts.
12/28/2011 12:46 PM (edited)
I think this is a really interesting question, because I've always thought they had similar skill sets, and the 6 game run Tebow and the Broncos went on I found to be eerily similar to the one the Titans and VY went on during his rookie year.  (Lots of close games and fourth quarter comebacks, winning some games with less than stellar numbers from the QB, etc)  Hell, New England even ended both streaks.  I was intrigued and even compared their numbers in those 6 game winning streaks, it's ridiculous how similar they were.   (The short of it: Young threw for more yards, but in many more attempts so that their YPA were pretty close, they ran for almost the same yardage, but Tebow had many more attempts so Young had an edge in YPC, both turned it over 3 times, and Young had a 10 to 9 edge in combined passing and rushing TDs)

To me, the question is going to be whether Tebow can develop as a passer in a way that VY never did.  If he doesn't, I don't think he'll have a long enough leash in Denver to get to VY's win totals, even though Elway has changed his public message.  VY was a top 3 pick and had ownership backing even after his coach grew to hate him.
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12/28/2011 2:01 PM
I don't think he gets 31 wins in Denver.   That's three more seasons of .500 ball.   Like E, I think Elway is waiting for Tebow to fail so he can move forward.    Assuming Denver wins on Sunday, that's 9-7.   Regardless of what I've said in the Broncos thread, teams winning close games tend to lose them the next season.   It's a known fact.   So, if they fall to 6-10 and Tebow improves, he's not guaranteed of being the QB in 2013 as the team went backwards.   Therefore, he'd have to lead a below average team to 10-11 wins next season and the year after to keep his job and get 31 wins in a Broncos uni.
12/28/2011 3:08 PM

I do think Tebow will get better as a passer - how much better? Who knows.

That being said, don't underestimate the power of the fans. I'm sure some would say it's stupid to let fans determine on-field decisions, but keep in mind that football is also a business. Obviously if a guy sucks, you don't keep running him out there. But if Tebow can even be an average NFL QB, and they can build a strong team around him, he sells jerseys, puts ***** in the seats and gives players and fans a jolt of energy/hope.

I have no clue if Elway is putting on an act as far as his feelings about Tebow, but as a businessman, he's been a pretty smart and successful guy, post-football. Tebow will definitely be the starter next season, and I suspect if they finish above .500 again, he'll be sticking around a while.

That being said, if they finish first, they're gonna draw all the first place teams in the AFC next year, so that will present a much more formidable schedule. On the plus side, they'll also get the NFC South, so Tebow will have a chance to bitchslap Newton back to the stoneage.

12/28/2011 3:11 PM
FWIW as far as wins ago, I mean for his career, not just as a Bronco.
12/28/2011 3:28 PM
Tebow is a guy who'll have a 10-12 year career if he wants it.    He's not going to be Drew Brees who swaps teams and gets better.   But he might luck into a HC/OC who wants him from the get-go and intends to build a team around his skillset.    I don't think that's Denver.    I don't see him getting three .500 seasons before Elway pulls the plug.    He'll get to make the decision unless Pat Bowlen suddenly becomes hands-on and starts recognizing the marketing side of Tebow at .500.   Think about it.   How many 4 year starters have played .500 ball?    I bet not many because teams that are always getting 7-9 wins don't keep the same QB for four seasons.
12/28/2011 4:23 PM

I think if he doesn't get to or very close to 31 wins in Denver, he won't get there at all.  I have a hard time envisioning a scenario where he doesn't develop enough to stick in Denver, but at the same time convinces someone else he's the answer.  I don't think they are committed to him in Denver right now, but I also don't really believe that they are so biased against him that if he makes real strides as a passer they'll cut the cord anyhow.  And if you don't think he's the answer, it's really tough to bring him in because of everything that comes with him.    If you're bringing him in at all, it has to be with the intent to start him, doesn't it?

12/28/2011 4:48 PM
Not sure.  As he said before he was drafted, only one team has to believe he can play QB in the NFL.   I'm sure there's someone out there thinking "If I could just tighten up that motion a little, he'd be in the HOF!"   So I could see some egotistical HC/OC/QB coach wanting him as a project.    He's not the worst QB in the NFL.   NE had some interest in him.   They've got Mallett as their project QB now so he's probably not for them now.   But you know there's another one out there.   I can still see him ending up in Jax at some point if Gabbert can't play.
12/28/2011 4:56 PM
On the plus side, they'll also get the NFC South, so Tebow will have a chance to bitchslap Newton back to the stoneage.

JT...  you can't be happy that you are playing the NFC south as a Broncos Fan, can you?  I mean, that means New Orleans and Atlanta to go along with a quickly improving Carolina team.  Ok...  Tampa sucks.  Was this just tongue in cheek because you somehow think Tebow is better than Cam Newton (which is also kinda silly)
12/28/2011 5:00 PM
Has anyone but me noticed that Carolina actually wins more when Newton passes less?     HOW INTERESTING!!!!
12/28/2011 5:31 PM
Posted by eschwartz67 on 12/28/2011 4:56:00 PM (view original):
On the plus side, they'll also get the NFC South, so Tebow will have a chance to bitchslap Newton back to the stoneage.

JT...  you can't be happy that you are playing the NFC south as a Broncos Fan, can you?  I mean, that means New Orleans and Atlanta to go along with a quickly improving Carolina team.  Ok...  Tampa sucks.  Was this just tongue in cheek because you somehow think Tebow is better than Cam Newton (which is also kinda silly)
Yes, it was a jab at Newton. Though with the way the NFC South has played this year, it will probably be on par with the schedule the Broncos have had this season against the NFC North. GB is roughly equal to NO, Detroit to Atlanta, Minny and a Cutler-less Chicago team to Tampa and Carolina.
12/28/2011 6:48 PM
Cam gonna rape Tebow
12/28/2011 6:48 PM
I can't wait to bump all of our Cam + Tebow threads in 10 years.

Will be epic lulz
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