All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > Progressive league trades...unfair??
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10/28/2012 2:02 PM
I see 2 issues here

1)   Most of us know somebody personally who introduced us to SIM.  My friend MCONJET61 introduced me and my other old Strat-O-Matic friends to SIM.  We tried to have a league with just us (in the days where there were only 24 teams) but not enough of us were interested.  Of my friends I'm the only one left and have been unscussefull in getting my co workers to join.  So like contrairian has stated at least twice where is the line drawn with relatives friends and co workers.

2)  What recourse does someone with a legitimate complaint have???  Lets say for 5 seasons in row a trade is made where you start to think something isn't right??
What do you do????  Any action you take  you will be accused of being a baby or a sore loser,  If you quit the league even without saying anything your name will be posted on the wall of shame etc.
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10/28/2012 2:44 PM
Posted by doubletruck on 10/28/2012 1:40:00 PM (view original):
Contrarian: Don't you pay more attention to a trade proposed by your competitor in your division than someone in the other league? Who proposes a trade is often a consideration whatever you might know or guess about them.
No, I don't.  Not at all.

In fact it drives me crazy when someone vetoes a trade just because it involves someone in their division.  It's one (of many) reasons why I started a prog where vetoes are prohibited.
10/28/2012 3:27 PM
Posted by doubletruck on 10/28/2012 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Despite the nature of my posts here, I'm a babe in the woods when it comes to such suspicions. I've never even considered that. What's your reason for asking?

ADDENDUM: Actually, there is one owner running two teams. It's all seemed above board, though. Edlayne said he was too busy to continue playing for a while. Rather than lose him, the commissioner allowed another owner to run his team for two seasons. One team is in the N.L. and the other is in the A.L.
I just found it odd that you would be bothered by ryno trading with his brother (trades that almost no one thinks are unfair based solely on their merits), when several of us here have noticed some fishiness with the annakourn/deadwood leagues.  Specifically, that many of the owners signing up for those leagues (excluding you and a few others) shared the same awkward writing style, punctuation quirks, ability to understand poorly explained rules, and penchant for joining only leagues run by annakourn/deadwood.  I recall that one owner thinking of joining an annakourn league actually sent in a ticket about aliases, and reported back that Admin told him there were indeed aliases in that league. 
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10/28/2012 3:32 PM
Posted by slashtc on 10/27/2012 11:35:00 PM (view original):
I have no problem with brothers being in leagues together, but you have to accept that trades are going to be looked at pretty closely - especially on an internet site where nobody actually knows you or your brother (or if your brother exists).
“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you”
? Joseph Heller, Catch-22
10/28/2012 5:41 PM
Having been on the site for about 12 years now I've gotten to know more than a few guys through the site. I would consider some of them friends. I've also introduced the site to my brother (chargingryno/magracefan), my stepdad (gadams480), my sister's boyfriend (nickt14), my wife (spurvin - which is no longer active as she passed away), as well as a handful of coworkers and classmates over the years (as far as I'm aware none of them are currently active). I've also been trying to get two of my other friends on here. Let's face it, WIS is fun, but it's more fun to play with people you know. Just like fantasy sports; I'm sure we all enjoy playing, but we enjoy the leagues with friends, family, and coworkers more. My fiance has recently expressed an interest in playing as well.

Progressives are one of the best league types to play in with people you know because the leagues cater to relationships and long-term planning.

In any case, or in any league, however, as has been mentioned above, trades shouldn't be evaluated based on who made them, but by the contents of the trade.
10/28/2012 6:34 PM
Posted by slashtc on 10/28/2012 12:41:00 PM (view original):
I don't disagree, but when you can't even be sure it's not the same person and there is an admitted connection, I think the extra scrutiny is justified.  Where the line is drawn is up to the individual.  Vetoes can be used for any reason short of collusion. 
I think the key phrase is "admitted connection".  I think if there was anything fishy going on between my brother and I then we would not have made it known that we are related.  We could have easily played it off as not knowing each other in RL - but we wanted to be honest, and have been from the moment I started playing this game.   
10/28/2012 7:16 PM

Leagues are certainly more fun when you play with people you know in real life, or owners that you've played so many leagues with that you've developed a relationship with on the site, or owners that become your "rival" since they always seem to beat you. It humanizes the game and is part of the reason why I only play progressives and selected themes. In an open league, you just get stuck with random owners and that detracts from the game in my opinion.

As far as trading with people you know, I've seen it (and done it) several times and never had an issue so long as it doens't negatively affect the competitive balance of the league. That is the only thing to worry about when vetoing. I love so many of the leagues I play in, that I want to protect the league. That is what matters to me.

In a 16 team league, you have to make everyone a trade partner or you limit the ability to make your team better. If you have a person you know (either in real life or on the site) and make a trade with them, then more power to you. Just don't eff up the league and you'll be fine.

The point here is that in a league where trading is an option - trades will be made. You can't control who makes trades. The only thing you can control (via veto) is whether you think the trade effs up the competitive balance of the league. If it does...veto. If it doesn't then don't veto. That should be the only argument here. It doesn't matter who the trade is between, but rather does it negatively impact the league that you care about so much (especially in a progressive).

10/28/2012 7:17 PM
Posted by chargingryno on 10/28/2012 6:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by slashtc on 10/28/2012 12:41:00 PM (view original):
I don't disagree, but when you can't even be sure it's not the same person and there is an admitted connection, I think the extra scrutiny is justified.  Where the line is drawn is up to the individual.  Vetoes can be used for any reason short of collusion. 
I think the key phrase is "admitted connection".  I think if there was anything fishy going on between my brother and I then we would not have made it known that we are related.  We could have easily played it off as not knowing each other in RL - but we wanted to be honest, and have been from the moment I started playing this game.   
If only it worked that way.  Maybe it's from bad experiences in HBD, but I learned not to trust anybody here...admitted or not.
10/29/2012 12:14 AM
I think the owners in progressive's are different than in HBD :)  we're a good bunch over here!  All joking aside, I think you'll find that progressive leagues have a large core of respected owners and its a very honest (we'll be sure to give our honest opinions on just about anything) and trustworthy group.  Does everyone like one another and get along at all times?  No - but there is still a respect for one another - a respect that, as frazzman said it, always puts the integrity of the league first.  
10/29/2012 12:20 AM

funny note about league integrity - the owner "questioning" these trades ...you know my division rival...said that the integrity of the league was ruined by my team -and that my team will be an unbeatable for 10 years because of the trades I made (as good as Aaron and Rose are- I sincerely doubt those 2 players make a team a guaranteed winner for a decade), despite the fact that last year (the 1st year after the trades took place) I had the 3rd highest team salary, finished with the 2nd best record in the league and lost in the 1st round of the playoffs, and this year (year 2 of the trades) I had the 4th highest team salary and missed the playoffs finishing with the 4th best record in the league.  Yep...my team is DEFINITELY throwing out any competitive balance! ;-)  

I've got my work cut out for me next year as well as my division rival just made a trade that will send 1966 Koufax and 1966 Mays to his team...

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