10/15/2012 7:13 PM
They should do an add/link on mlb.com again. I know many of us who have been here a long time first found the site because they had an ad and link there. At one time I logged in through MLB.com team sites.
10/15/2012 7:25 PM
Posted by deathinahole on 10/15/2012 5:22:00 PM (view original):
HBD = Stratomatic.

There are still a large amount of people that will sit with a board, cards, and dice. They won't get a whole lot of noobs in, but once you are in, you're in. There is probably a faction that say "it would be nice if the cards didn't look like 1982", but they still play.

That is HBD. Those that like to be here like to be here. Those that like to be here and leave come back, because they liked to be here.

I'd be bummed if it went away totally, but I'm not bummed that there's a static X amount that play, and I'm not bummed that it looks like 2003.
I was thinking the exact same thing.  For me it was APBA, when I was about 13 or 14.  

I can't help but see the outside view.  I have a friend who watches sports but doesn't play, and who flat out says that people who play fantasy sports... including fantasy football... are retards.  Calls it "your Dungeons and Dragons."

And here we are saying, "Why aren't more people getting in on it?"  Well, what if we are retards?

What if, to quote Jack Nicholson, this is as good as it gets?


10/16/2012 9:18 AM
I think there is a limited base of customers but I don't think it's been reached.

The pre-season pretty much requires that one has computer access during the day.   I don't think you can check in at 7 AM, go to work, check in again at 7 PM, go to bed and check in again at 7 AM.   You can run a team that way but there is a 4 day period(FA/coach hiring) where you need more access.   If they were doing updates, they could address this issue and possibly expand the customer base.    Nonetheless, not everyone who follows baseball or plays fantasy sports is going to be interested regardless of upgrades or changes.  
10/16/2012 2:59 PM
They aren't close to tapping the customer base for this game. They aren't trying to.

Fox makes more money promoting hundreds of things than they make promoting HBD / WIS.  And they don't use this space to promote anything.  One ad on the top of a page that maybe 10% of the people playing this game see once a week generates a few dollars a week for Fox.

If they were will to invest in the game, there are things they could do to make it a more reasonable game to play for more people. There are a few days you MUST have internet access & time if you want to compete. Miss the key coach hiring days, and there's a good chance you've set you team back. I'm sure people check out then. Easy enough to fix how the game works, but it would take a bit of programming.

Same for FA negotiations. The current system is about as complex & non-user friendly as it can be.  No reason we couldn't get immediate replies from coaches or FA.  No reason for there to be a hard cut off date for signing. 

And the draft.  No reason they couldn't post the draft class the day the season starts.  I've been on vacation or traveling more than once during the 1 week we get to rank players. Sucks. Would be very easy to walk away from the game, or at least that team right then.  No reason to not give us 2 months to rank the players.

For some reason, way back when, someone decided this would be a batch game.  This game was developed by what appear to be A+ programmers & baseball fans/geeks and D+ web programmers.

What's I've seen posted before, but not recently is that, despite all of the flaws in the game and the lack of updates or improvements, HBD seems to be, without too much debate, the best baseball simulation out there.  If I found a better one, or one almost as good, I would have jumped ship at least a year ago.  One more reason why it's understandable why Fox doesn't invest a dollar on HBD. 
10/16/2012 3:01 PM
OK, I'll bite.

How many people do you know?   How many are baseball fans?  How many would sit down and play this game 12 months a year?
10/16/2012 3:11 PM
I can see what tufft is saying. I'm tired of the ridiculous price increases over the years for what basically is 0 improvements to the game!!!!!

Oh wait....
10/16/2012 3:49 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/16/2012 3:01:00 PM (view original):
OK, I'll bite.

How many people do you know?   How many are baseball fans?  How many would sit down and play this game 12 months a year?
I know you weren't baiting me, but I'll bite here.

I know a fairly large number of hardcore baseball, and baseball statistics fans.  I mean, I play roto with 25 different people just for starters, and many of those 25 play Stratomatic with guys I see occasionally.  Most of these guys (not a woman anywhere in this social circle) are disciples at the Church of Bill James.

One, other than myself, plays HBD.  The others can't imagine even trying the time commitment or game complexity; 3 tried but bailed after 1 or 2 seasons.

HBD is really a niche market.  It's probably not fully tapped, but I bet it's darn close.

10/16/2012 4:05 PM
In order for the potential HBD market to be "darn close" to being tapped, one would have to assume that virtually anybody who might possibly be interested in playing a game like this would need to be (a) aware of it's existiance, or (b) at least be aware of and have been drawn to checking out whatifsports.com.

Neither WIS or HBD is ubiquitous in terms of internet or even fantasy sports presense.  So without additional advertising, whether on other web sites, TV, print, etc., I'm not sure how one can conclude that the potential market is "darn close" to being fully tapped.
10/16/2012 4:15 PM
I wasn't really "baiting" anyone.  Just merely trying to prove a point.

I don't think the potential customer base is tapped(or really close).   Nor do I think any amount of advertising, spare no expense, is going to start a massive influx of people.   People seem to think that there are thousands of people who'd play HBD if they were exposed to it.    That's not true.   Personally, thru work and softball, I know hundreds of people.   Of them, I guess there are only 20 or so who I'd call anything more than casual baseball fans.   I've mentioned WifS to all of them with different levels of detail based upon my interpretation of their desire to hear about it(I honestly see HBD/SLB in the same light as a video game and I know no one wants to really hear about that overtime game of Madden you played yesterday).   Exactly one played a season in some public world.   Maybe the experience sucked.  Maybe it just wasn't for him.   Nonetheless, less than 5% of the baseball fans I know, and less than .05% of the people I know, even bothered to try it.

It's just not for everyone.
10/16/2012 4:17 PM
As to tec's point, google "baseball simulations".   Right there on the front page. 
10/16/2012 4:49 PM
Kinda what I was trying to say, Mike.  We're strange people.

I got into WIS through the hockey sim, being Canadian.  Back in 2005 my employer, a sports radio station, set up a free trial league with WIS and invited our listeners to play along with us.  Out of all the station employees who participated, I'm the only one who remains.  Out of all the hundreds of thousands of listeners we reached, we managed to fill ONE open league (24 teams), and there's ONE other guy who played in that first league who I know that is still active on WIS; he's the only other one who got into it, and he's played just as much as I have or maybe more.

Because I played APBA back in the 70s, you see.  I get it.  I'm not expecting anyone else to.

I can say this:  "I have an imaginary soccer team that's won eight championships in 26 seasons."  Doesn't that sentence make me sound like a loony?




10/16/2012 7:44 PM
No, you don't sound like Canadian currency. 
10/16/2012 8:31 PM
Posted by damag on 10/16/2012 4:49:00 PM (view original):
Kinda what I was trying to say, Mike.  We're strange people.

I got into WIS through the hockey sim, being Canadian.  Back in 2005 my employer, a sports radio station, set up a free trial league with WIS and invited our listeners to play along with us.  Out of all the station employees who participated, I'm the only one who remains.  Out of all the hundreds of thousands of listeners we reached, we managed to fill ONE open league (24 teams), and there's ONE other guy who played in that first league who I know that is still active on WIS; he's the only other one who got into it, and he's played just as much as I have or maybe more.

Because I played APBA back in the 70s, you see.  I get it.  I'm not expecting anyone else to.

I can say this:  "I have an imaginary soccer team that's won eight championships in 26 seasons."  Doesn't that sentence make me sound like a loony?




Not really much stranger than someone saying they killed three dragons and millions play games like World of Warcraft. Many of those games also require a great deal of knowledge and calculations much like HBD.  It's not all that strange and people willing to play games like this aren't all that rare...you just have to keep the game fresh and make it compelling.

10/16/2012 8:48 PM
Here is your market.

Go to any university campus that has a math department.

Interrupt any Calculus and/or Statistics class.

"Who here likes sports?"
Kick out the rest.

"Who here has Asperbergers?"
Kick out the rest.

There is your market. Granted, because of their OCD, they won't be able to stop playing, so your market is 100% committed to the product.

10/16/2012 8:58 PM
AGAIN you're dead right.  OCD is a BIG part of it.


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