All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Iba > Senioritis hits again!
8/21/2012 11:22 AM
I have mostly complained in my 36 seasons on the forum. Mostly because I am passionaite about my team playing its best and trying to win a title. But, I can't see that I can continue. Why? Robert Hughes. My senior C who is shooting the worst percentage of his career. He is an A+ in my offense, 99LP and 39ath. 11 points a game ain't bad, but not good enough when you need a Senior to lead you to victories. Especially since he is a 3rd team preseason all american. Oh, and his rebounding. Where he is has a 98, and he can't even get 5 a game! I know, I know...."it's only 9 games and his numbers will balance out over the entire season." Well, I call BS.

I would love to know theories as to why Hughes is performing this way, but with one stipulation. If its about the amount of games or I was playing some "really good coaches," shovel that crap some place else. I have been doing this for a little while as well and have had a decent amount of success.

This is not the first time of course that a Senior has come into the season with a back to carry the team based upon what they have done as a Soph and/or Junior, only to fall on his face when he enters his last year.
8/21/2012 1:16 PM
Without looking at your roster, what are the REB ratings for your other starters?   If I understand correctly,  the total REB rating is more important. Then, once it's decided which team gets the rebound, one of your players is credited for the board.
8/21/2012 2:58 PM
Not to be too harsh, but imo the problem is he has 39 Ath..I think you're underestimating the impact of that.  It's just really not very good for an elite big.  I've had players like this before, near perfect LP and Reb and mediocre Ath.  For me they've tended to do pretty well against weaker teams, but struggle against more athletic teams..just generally not very consistent.  I've had the same experience with guards with high Per and lowish Spd.

If you look at his two worst games so far, 2/12 and 8/19, he was matched up against a C with 70's Ath in both.  I mean he's almost never going to have an edge in Ath, so frankly 11 ppg is about what I would expect this guy to put up.  42% is unreasonably low, but that should get a little better at least.  He's a good player, but he's no All-American imo.


8/21/2012 2:59 PM
1. Why do you mention his 39 ATH rating? 39 is subpar......
2. PRESEASON all-american.
3. You have played some really good teams (obviously, as your SOS is 7). Players will shoot worse against better defenses than they will against worse defenses.
4. Alblack has a good point on the rebounding... Besides Nickle (decent) and Carlo (okay), you have no good rebounders on your team aside from Hughes.
5. Passing is extremely important in the flex, and not only is your team average poor (30), you only have one player over a 60 in passing and just two over 50. The engine makes it tough on bigs to score in the flex without good passers, especially when they have low ATH ratings like Hughes does.

6. I don't even have a team in Iba, just trying to help out!
8/21/2012 4:19 PM
I know it was preseason all american. Why? I didn't select him, the "engine" did?  The third best C in D III preseason, again, I didn't pick that. So the engine says he is number 3 in the preseason all american picks, but now you say the engine says he is not very good. Just decent. Makes no sense.

Also, it makes no sense that because my PG can't rebound, that my 98 REB player can't rebound. I understand what you are saying but I guess I look at the game in a traditional basketball sense, not from a probability code sense. Hard for non computer programmers to understand. I also consider my players on an individual basis and not the entire team. Sounds like that's not the way to look at it at all.

I don't think that 39 is a horrible ATH for a C either. Sure I would much rather have a 50-60 at minimum at every position but not always possible. I understand also about good teams and bad matchups, but at which point does overall basic numbers trump some portion of ATH. Never? That doesn't seem right to me. But there I go again looking at it from an individual sense. 

I do know that when my team was riding high, we also had a team ATH about 50. Maybe that is still the answer in DIII. I thought they changed/fixed that, but I guess not. 

I understand about the passing thing and know that my team does suck in that capacity. Not something I took into account so thanks for pointing that out.

In taking another look, Hughes hasn't improved one bit this season, so I guess he will be as good as he was last year. He is not, but will probably average out against the pond scum I play in CUNY's East Division.

I guess I've just gotten bitter by playing so long and jaded because I feel my players are great, the way that most coaches feel about their guys that they are counting on. Maybe I could be 9 and oh drilling the bottom feeders, and my RPI would probably be the same as it is right now or pretty close.


8/21/2012 4:42 PM
I have to agree with what others have said here.  39 ATH is low for an elite big.  39 is actually below average for even a "good" big at D3.  That is your biggest issue.  The ATH rating essentially works as a multiplier on his LP when he tries to score, his REB when he goes for a rebound and his DEF when he is playing defense.  I would expect a 60 ATH, 85 LP, 85 REB player to out score and out rebound a 39 ATH, 99 LP and 98 REB player every time.
8/21/2012 4:57 PM
I look at the pre-season All-American list with as much validity as the Recruiting Class rankings.  Sometimes it's accurate but, more often, it gives high marks to players returning from Final Four teams or to players who scored a lot but did little else.
8/21/2012 5:39 PM
Yeah I think the pre-season AA list is just about worthless, it definitely doesn't mean the guy is the 3rd best big in D3.  Just means he put up some stats last season.

39 Ath isn't terrible, but it's really not good if you want to make NT runs.  Personally I would not sign a big on any of my D3 teams who would max under 40 Ath, and I'd recommend that to anyone.  I've had players like that and they've disappointed me.  Agree with md, and I'd even say 60 Ath with 70s LP/Reb will out-perform this guy.  Ath is pretty much the key to winning right now imo.

To put it into more context, I'm a terrific spot up shooter in real life.  Maybe I'd have 90 Per, seriously.  But then I also have no height, speed, handle, or stamina.  Someone reasonably athletic standing near me shuts it down.  And I think that makes sense in real life and in HD.  Your guy "knows" how to rebound as good as anyone, he just can't get there over guys with twice his Ath.  Same for LP, he can't execute his perfect moves if he can't get create a little space. 

I know you asked "at what point does skill trump Ath?"  Well I don't think it does.  If your player has a huge Ath disadvantage, he's going to struggle at times, whether he has 10 LP or 100.  He can't get a good look, so it almost doesn't matter how good he is at finishing.

And I do agree he's under-performing on top of what I said.  42% is pretty awful for a big and 39 Ath really isn't terrible.
8/21/2012 7:07 PM
I think your guy is performing exactly how I would expect, given 2 factors.

#1. His ATH is definitely sub-par
#2 You've played against a very tough schedule, so he's been defended well.

If you were playing a bunch of weak Sim AI teams, I could see him with 16 PPG and 9 RPG - but that's not the case. He's being defended by guys with similar ATH. Also, he can't pass or handle the ball, so he's limited there. It's true that he has great core LP and Reb skills, but when you're moving slow and not jumping high against more athletic teams, those skills will only get you so far. 

Last point - your team can still definitely make the NT as long as you do well in conference play, which should be much easier than your very tough non-conf schedule. With at least 14 or 15 total wins and a very high SOS, you can still find your way into the tourney.  (I've done that many times with my S. Ark team in Gulf South Allen, a trechearous DII conference0

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