All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Wooden > The Annual 4MBCPMBBT Tournament
11/25/2013 12:54 PM (edited)
1. yes

2. Would the phrase "conference ranking" make more sense than conference seedings?  Well, on the margin it matters a bit.  The other "mid-majors"  (Upstate, Minny, Midwest, Michigan) have their tourney in slot 10 I think.  So this is a bunch of good teams that aren't available to schedule that week.  In our tourney, the 3rd seed conference (USA this season) doesn't play in our tourney in slot 10, so this is maybe some "disadvantage" to them vs. the top 2 seeds.  Obvioiusly there are 300+ other teams they can schedule in slot 10, but let's face it, the pool of good teams is a lot slimmer in slot 10.

Also, I think it's worthwhile to have the top 2 seeds play one another in slot 10.  It's simply an effort to have the conference rankings, which are based on the conf. RPI after the first 10 games last season, mean something.  Essentially we're doing what you're suggesting, with the exception that Team 1, Team 2, and Team 3 are replaced with 1st seed, 2nd seed, and 3rd seed for the reasons I just described.

So my question above was an effort to possibly add more meaning to the tourney results.  The conference who wins the most games would then be the top ranked conference for next season's tourney, as opposed to relying on the conference RPI rankings after the 10th game.  But maybe most coaches prefer the conf. RPI after the 10th game instead of the tourney's results for seeding purposes.  That's why I'm asking for feedback.
11/25/2013 8:30 PM
I am fine with going by the conference with the most wins this year rather than RPI.
11/25/2013 10:23 PM
I'm fine either way, really. Like these tournament thingies.
11/26/2013 1:47 AM
Posted by jdno on 11/25/2013 12:54:00 PM (view original):
1. yes

2. Would the phrase "conference ranking" make more sense than conference seedings?  Well, on the margin it matters a bit.  The other "mid-majors"  (Upstate, Minny, Midwest, Michigan) have their tourney in slot 10 I think.  So this is a bunch of good teams that aren't available to schedule that week.  In our tourney, the 3rd seed conference (USA this season) doesn't play in our tourney in slot 10, so this is maybe some "disadvantage" to them vs. the top 2 seeds.  Obvioiusly there are 300+ other teams they can schedule in slot 10, but let's face it, the pool of good teams is a lot slimmer in slot 10.

Also, I think it's worthwhile to have the top 2 seeds play one another in slot 10.  It's simply an effort to have the conference rankings, which are based on the conf. RPI after the first 10 games last season, mean something.  Essentially we're doing what you're suggesting, with the exception that Team 1, Team 2, and Team 3 are replaced with 1st seed, 2nd seed, and 3rd seed for the reasons I just described.

So my question above was an effort to possibly add more meaning to the tourney results.  The conference who wins the most games would then be the top ranked conference for next season's tourney, as opposed to relying on the conference RPI rankings after the 10th game.  But maybe most coaches prefer the conf. RPI after the 10th game instead of the tourney's results for seeding purposes.  That's why I'm asking for feedback.
Gotcha - that makes sense. I prefer conf RPI over most games won, but could go either way. 
12/3/2013 10:08 PM
I'll try to update this thread tomorrow with the initial results from the first of the 3 sets of matchups tonight (CCIW vs. USA). 

Also for next season, I'm going to say we'll go with the tournament's results (i.e. tourney wins) from this season to rank the conferences.  If there's a tie between conferences for number of wins, then we'll use conference RPI after the first 10 games as the tiebreaker.  We didn't get too many opinions cast on this topic, and there really wasn't a consensus reached, but I think using the tourney results instead of conference RPI rank simply makes the tourney's results that much more meaningful, esp. to avoid having to schedule a NC game in slot 10 when all the other top 6 conferences have tournament games going on and aren't available for slot 10.  In reality, I'd be willing to bet that in most seasons the order would turn out the same with either ranking method, but we'll formalize it like this to avoid any "disputes" down the road.

And the order we'll use to determine which conferences play one another and in which slot and on whose home court is the same as what we used this season:

Slot 8:  3rd seed conference at 2nd seed conference
Slot 9:  1st seed at 3rd seed
Slot 10:  2nd seed at 1st seed

Let the games begin!
12/6/2013 10:42 AM (edited)
Matchups for Season 70 3-Way Tourney



Slot#8:  USA @ CCIW

Greensboro 65 @ Carthage 68   (CCIW 1, USA 0)
Christopher Newport 82 @ Wisconsin Lutheran 73  (CCIW 1, USA 1)
NCWC 88 @ Elmhurst 85          (CCIW 1, USA 2)
PBAU 63 @ Wheaton 67         (played in slot 7, CCIW 2, USA 2)
LaGrange 97 @ N. Park 83  (played in slot 7, CCIW 2, USA 3)
Oglethorpe 58 @ Martin Luther 80  (played in slot 6, CCIW 3, USA 3)
Chowan 57 @ Milwaukee Engineering 67  (played in slot 8, CCIW 4, USA 3)
Millikin   (wins by default, CCIW 5, USA 3)


Slot #9   NJAC @ USA

TCNJ 69 @ LaGrange 63   (NJAC 1, USA 0)
RUC 57 @ Greensboro 62  (NJAC 1, USA 1)
Rowan 98 @ Christopher Newport 89  (NJAC 2, USA 1)
Montclair St. 87 @ NCWC 75   (NJAC 3, USA 1)
Kean 72 @ PBAU 67  (played in slot 2, NJAC 4, USA 1)
Oglethorpe 52 @ Wm Paterson 65   (HCA was reversed for some reason, played in slot 7, NJAC 5, USA 1)
RUN 87 @ Chowan 80   (played in slot 7, NJAC 6, USA 1)
Cazenovia  (wins by default, NJAC 7, USA 1)


Slot #10   CCIW @ NJAC

Millikin 75 @ Cazenovia 82   (CCIW 0, NJAC 1)
Carthage 49 @ Wm Paterson 59   (CCIW 0, NJAC 2)
Elmhurst 76 @ Montclair St. 92   (CCIW 0, NJAC 3)
N. Park 73 @ TCNJ 76   (CCIW 0, NJAC 4)
Wisconsin Lutheran 92 @ Rowan 79   (CCIW 1, NJAC 4)
Wheaton 58 @ RUC 77   (CCIW 1, NJAC 5)
Milwaukee Engineering 66 @ RUN 77   (CCIW 1, NJAC 6)
Martin Luther 73 @ Kean 62   (CCIW 2, NJAC 6)


Final Tally

NJAC 13-3  --> Tourney Champion and next season's 1st seed
CCIW 7-9  --> 2nd seed
USA 4-12  --> 3rd seed


Next Season's Tourney Schedule

Slot 8 = USA @ CCIW  (NJAC free to schedule)
Slot 9 = NJAC @ USA (CCIW free to schedule)
Slot 10 = CCIW @ NJAC (USA free to schedule)


12/16/2013 9:07 PM
CCIW rankings for next year:  1. Elmhurst    2. Carthage    3. Millikin    4. Martin Luther    5. Wisconsin Lutheran   6. Wheaton    7. North Park    8. Mil Engineering   and if we do nine,  9. Augustana. 
12/17/2013 11:23 AM
Posted by jpmills3 on 12/4/2013 12:30:00 PM (view original):
I see you had a ? by Kean's game with PBAU.  Yes, we had to schedule in Week 2 due to our spot being taken.  
RE: switching the weeks we play each year.  I recognize your "margins" argument about week 10 not having as many good opponents available, and that being the reason to shift the potential weeks we play in each season.  However, I think it will go significantly cleaner with less issues and scheduling mishaps if we just knew that NJ doesn't schedule weeks 9 and 10 (saved for tourney), CCIW doesn't schedule 8 and 10 (saved for tourney), and USA South doesn't schedule 8 and 9 (Saved for tourney).   People would just know to avoid scheduling those weeks.  We don't seem to be getting the saving 3 weeks (8,9,10) quite yet.
completely agree with this. 
12/17/2013 2:27 PM
I hear you guys.  Let's see how this year's scheduling goes.  Even if we did that inevitably a few teams will still screw up.

Anyhow, here are NJAC rankings for next season's tourney:

1 = Monty, 2 = RUC, 3 = Kean, 4 = WP, 5 = TCNJ, 6 = R. STockton, 7 = Rowan, 8 = Caz

12/17/2013 9:36 PM
USA South

1)NCWC
2)Palm Beach
3)Averett
4)Chowan
5)Newport
6)Oglethorpe
7)Greensboro
8)Piedmont
9)La Grange
12/19/2013 1:45 PM
Season 71 match-ups:
 
game 8: USA @ CCIW. 1. NCWC @ Elmhurst, 2. PBAU @ Carthage, 3. Averett @ Millikin, 4. Chowan @ Martin Luther, 5. Chris Newport @ Wisconsin Lutheran 6. Oglethorpe @ Wheaton 7.Greensboro @ North Park, 8. Piedmont @ Milwaukee Engineering

game 10: CCIW @ NJ: 1. elmhurst @ MSU, 2. Carthage @ Rutgers Camden (RUC), 3. Millikin @ Kean, 4. Martin Luther @ William Patterson 5. Wisconsin Lutheran @ TCNJ, 6. Wheaton @ Richard Stockton, 7. North Park @ Rowan and 8. Milwaukee Engineering @ Cazenovia.
1/25/2014 10:21 AM (edited)
Season 71:  3-Way Tourney Results


Slot 8 - USA @ CCIW

1. NCWC 65 @ Elmhurst 47         (USA 1, CCIW 0) 
2. PBAU 54 @ Carthage 67          (USA 1, CCIW 1)
3. Averett @ Millikin                         ???????????????
4. Chowan 50 @ Martin Luther 48    (USA 2, CCIW 1)
5. Chris Newport 73 @ WI-Lutheran 68     (USA 3, CCIW 1)
6. Oglethorpe 59 @ Wheaton 77   (USA 3, CCIW 2) 
7. Greensboro 63 @ N. Park 74    (USA 3, CCIW 3)
8. Piedmont @ Milwaukee Engr.    ??????????????      (USA 3, CCIW 3)


Slot 9 - NJAC @ USA

1. Monty St. 80 @ NCWC 69   (NJAC 1, USA 0)
2. RUC 72 @ PBAU 56            (NJAC 2, USA 0)
3. Kean 60 @ Averett 56          (NJAC 3, USA 0)
4. WmPat 62 @ Chowan 64    (NJAC 3, USA 1)
5. TCNJ 60 @ Chris Newport 50   (NJAC 4, USA 1)
6. R. Stockton 62 @ Oglethorpe 72  (NJAC 4, USA 2)
7. Rowan 55 @ Greensboro 62     (NJAC 4, USA 3)
8. Caz @ Piedmont                           ???????     (NJAC 4, USA 3)



Slot 10 - CCIW @ NJAC


1. Elmhurst 71 @ Monty St. 79           (NJAC 1, CCIW 0)
2. Carthage 83 @ RUC 91                 (NJAC 2, CCIW 0)
3. Millikin 79 @ Kean 69                     (NJAC 2, CCIW 1)
4. Martin Luther 70 @ WmPat 65      (NJAC 2, CCIW 2)
5. WI-Lutheran 71 @ TCNJ 83           (NJAC 3, CCIW 2)
6. Wheaton 81 @ R. Stockton 72       (NJAC 3, CCIW 3)
7. N. Park 39 @ Rowan 61                 (NJAC 4, CCIW 3)
8. Milw. Engr. @ Caz                    ????????????    (NJAC 4, CCIW 3)



Final Tally

NJAC 8-6  --> Tourney Champion and next season's 1st seed
USA 6-7 --> 2nd seed via Conference RPI tiebreaker (USA 0.6110 vs. CCIW 0.5534)
CCIW 6-7  --> 3rd seed via Conference RPI tiebreaker (USA 0.6110 vs. CCIW 0.5534)

A very competitive 3-way tourney!! Can't get much closer than this.


Next Season's Tourney Schedule


Slot 8 = CCIW @ USA  (NJAC free to schedule)
Slot 9 = NJAC @ CCIW (USA free to schedule)
Slot 10 = USA @ NJAC (CCIW free to schedule)

1/31/2014 9:04 PM
CCIW rankings for next year: 1. Elmhurst 2. Millikin 3. Carthage 4. WiscoLuth 5. Wheaton 6. Martin Luther 7. Ill Wes - If we do 8. then Mil Engineering (not sure how involved owner is). 
2/3/2014 9:50 AM
Here are the NJAC final rankings for the Season 72 tourney: 1 = Monty, 2 = TCNJ, 3 = Kean, 4 = RUC, 5 = RUN, 6 = Rowan, 7 = R. Stockton, 8 = Caz. 
3/16/2014 2:32 AM (edited)
Season 72:  3-Way Tourney Results


Slot 8 - CCIW @ USA

1. Elmhurst 59 @ Greensboro 78           (CCIW 0, USA 1)
2. Millikin 51 @ Averett 62                         (CCIW 0, USA 2)
3. Carthage 78 @ PBAU 88                      (CCIW 0, USA 3)
4. Wiscy Lutheran 83 @ NCWC 93         (CCIW 0, USA 4)
5. Wheaton 77 @ Shenandoah 72          (CCIW 1, USA 4)
6. Martin Luther (Forfeited ) @ CNU        (CCIW 1, USA 5)
7. IL-Wesleyan 64 @ Methodist 61         (CCIW 2, USA 5)
8. N. Park 71 @ Oglethorpe 65 (slot 7)   (CCIW 3, USA 5)


Slot 9 - NJAC @ CCIW

1. Monty St. 88 @ Elmhurst 80    (NJAC 1, CCIW 0)
2. TCNJ 60 @ Millikin 58              (NJAC 2, CCIW 0)
3. Kean 66 @ Carthage 61          (NJAC 3, CCIW 0)
4. RUC 66 @ Wiscy Lutheran 81  (NJAC 3, CCIW 1)
5. RUN 73 @ Wheaton 96             (NJAC 3, CCIW 2)
6. Rowan @ Martin Luther (Forfeited)   (NJAC 4, CCIW 2)
7. R. Stockton 81 @ IL-Wesleyan 67   (NJAC 5, CCIW 2)       
8. N. Park 98 @ Caz 110 (slot 1)   (NJAC 6, CCIW 2)



Slot 10 - USA @ NJAC


1. Greensboro 68 @ Monty St. 88     (USA 0, NJAC 1)
2. Averett 62 @ TCNJ 50                     (USA 1, NJAC 1)
3. NCWC 69 @ Kean 62                     (USA 2, NJAC 1)
4. PBAU 69 @ RUC 54 (slot 7)          (USA 3, NJAC 1)
5. Shenandoah 65 @ RUN 79           (USA 3, NJAC 2)  
6. CNU 59 @ Rowan 55                     (USA 4, NJAC 2)
7. Methodist 57 @ R. Stockton 88     (USA 4, NJAC 3)
8. Oglethorpe 67 @ Caz 78                (USA 4, NJAC 4)


Final Results

NJAC 10-6  --> Tourney Champion and next season's 1st seed
USA 9-7 --> 2nd seed next season     
CCIW 5-11 --> 3rd seed season


Next Season's Tourney Schedule

Slot 8 = CCIW @ USA  (NJAC free to schedule)
Slot 9 = NJAC @ CCIW (USA free to schedule)
Slot 10 = USA @ NJAC (CCIW free to schedule)
of 12
All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Wooden > The Annual 4MBCPMBBT Tournament

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.