All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Education or Unions? What say ye Obama?
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
9/11/2012 10:49 AM
The teachers are having a problem with the "evaluation" process.   Meaning "Don't evaluate me!!!!"

Also, as a side note, average Chicago teacher makes 76k(most in the nation).  The average Chicago citizen makes 47k.  
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
9/11/2012 11:21 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/11/2012 10:49:00 AM (view original):
The teachers are having a problem with the "evaluation" process.   Meaning "Don't evaluate me!!!!"

Also, as a side note, average Chicago teacher makes 76k(most in the nation).  The average Chicago citizen makes 47k.  
The previous teacher's contract had them being evaluated only by building and district administration based on classroom observation.  New state regulations (implemented because of the promise of federal funds for states that comply) require states to implement standardized testing as part of the evaluation process.  CPS wants the standardized testing component to be larger than is legally required and the teacher's union doesn't.  Seems reasonable on the teacher's side because there's no strong evidence that standardized testing is a legitimate way to determine teacher effectiveness.

However, their whining about having to work a longer day for no extra money, couple with complaints about only 2% increases as opposed to the 4% they were promised, is a classic case of not know your audience.  And by "audience" I mean the parents in the district that may be unemployed, underemployed, or having to work more hours for the same pay.
9/11/2012 12:01 PM
I doubt there's a good way to evaluate teachers.   You can't make stupid kids smart.   You shouldn't drag down an entire class trying to do just that.    But people who aren't held accountable generally do worse than they should. 
9/11/2012 1:39 PM

I think you can evaluate teachers by evaluating them against their peers (same grade level) within their school district.

Here in Connecticut, we have standardized tests (Connecticut Mastery Tests, or CMTs) that every child in the state in grades 3 through 8 take every year.  Scores are summarized both statewide and district wide.  If some teachers consistently have classes whose aggregate CMT scores are averaging below other teachers at the same grade level within the same school, or within the same school district, then that should be a clue about ineffectiveness.

I'm guessing that other states have similar standardized tests that can use this same approach to evaluating teachers.

This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
9/11/2012 2:19 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 9/11/2012 1:39:00 PM (view original):

I think you can evaluate teachers by evaluating them against their peers (same grade level) within their school district.

Here in Connecticut, we have standardized tests (Connecticut Mastery Tests, or CMTs) that every child in the state in grades 3 through 8 take every year.  Scores are summarized both statewide and district wide.  If some teachers consistently have classes whose aggregate CMT scores are averaging below other teachers at the same grade level within the same school, or within the same school district, then that should be a clue about ineffectiveness.

I'm guessing that other states have similar standardized tests that can use this same approach to evaluating teachers.

The key is "consistently".  Teachers that consistently have kids performing well (compared to their peers) are obviously doing something right just as teachers who consistently have kids performing badly are most likely bad teachers.  It's everybody in between that's hard to evaluate.

Also, at least in CT and NY, there's a lot of discussion about who's responsible for a 3rd grader's test scores....the 3rd grade teacher or the 2nd grade teacher?

And again, the teachers have always been evaluated....and are now being partially evaluated by test scores.  The only thing that's being argued is how much of their total evaluation is tied to test scores.
9/11/2012 9:04 PM
There seems to be some idea that Teachers cannot be rated? I guess it is possible but it would be the only job in the world that you cannot rate.
9/11/2012 9:19 PM (edited)
Do you know what you're talking about on any subject?

Teachers are rated (evaluated) the same way that most people are.....an evaluation written up by their superior based on observance of their work.  There is now a movement towards evaluations that are base partially on standardized tests.....and that's where the disagreement is.

*Edit*  Oh, and it's Obama and Arne Duncan who are pushing the standardized test through the Race to the Top initiative.....against the wishes of Teacher's Unions across the country.

9/11/2012 9:25 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 9/11/2012 1:39:00 PM (view original):

I think you can evaluate teachers by evaluating them against their peers (same grade level) within their school district.

Here in Connecticut, we have standardized tests (Connecticut Mastery Tests, or CMTs) that every child in the state in grades 3 through 8 take every year.  Scores are summarized both statewide and district wide.  If some teachers consistently have classes whose aggregate CMT scores are averaging below other teachers at the same grade level within the same school, or within the same school district, then that should be a clue about ineffectiveness.

I'm guessing that other states have similar standardized tests that can use this same approach to evaluating teachers.

This is effective to a point. But as someone who works in a high school with a large school district I would point out that school to school even in the same district is not always apples to apples. Perhaps class to class in the school is a good idea but then you are talking small sample sizes. Its a hard question to answer and in the end you need to find a way that benifts the kids in the school. Too often you find teachers that are teaching to a test rather then teaching to whats important to the kids lives and futures.
9/11/2012 10:23 PM
Posted by jvford on 9/11/2012 9:19:00 PM (view original):
Do you know what you're talking about on any subject?

Teachers are rated (evaluated) the same way that most people are.....an evaluation written up by their superior based on observance of their work.  There is now a movement towards evaluations that are base partially on standardized tests.....and that's where the disagreement is.

*Edit*  Oh, and it's Obama and Arne Duncan who are pushing the standardized test through the Race to the Top initiative.....against the wishes of Teacher's Unions across the country.

RTT is just a government giveaway.

We need a system where good teachers get raises and bad teacehrs get fired and look for new jobs. And the rest of the teachers stay the same.
of 2
All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Education or Unions? What say ye Obama?

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.