10/4/2012 4:11 PM
Posted by dukenilnil on 10/4/2012 3:18:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for doing this, very interesting

I image that when the current freshman hit junior year and have mostly if not completely maxed out, there will be a strong temptation to pump a bunch of minutes into IQ.
It will be kind of a shame with the way these players are developing to have the IQs so low. But, it is going to be pretty entertaining to see just how far this team can make it. I am now expecting a Sweet 16 out of them.
10/4/2012 4:25 PM
Posted by Iguana1 on 10/4/2012 3:36:00 PM (view original):
so there was an assumption being made that by simply playing, or playing against, and not spending a single practice minute on a certain set, that the IQ's would be improving?

The players should move from F to D- sometime during there soph seasons (maybe second half?) but you will also notice they also will improve in sets that you've never played or even played against.
Well, i think a lot of new coaches and still some vets thought that playing a certain off/def would help you learn it quicker. I think even WI sports has said this at one point, although i could be mistaken. As a young coach I always liked to see proof, so that is what I'm helping provide for some. I already knew the answer to this question and I agree they do start changing to D- somewhere in the middle of their careers roughly, but now any coach will be able to come to this post and see for themselves. 

I'm also 99% sure I can get this team into the NT, but one thing i really have no idea about is just how far a top 5 team (talent wise) can go with no IQ practice so this is going to be pretty fun and no telling where it could go. I know you have done a lot of tests Iquana (and i have used your IQ chart many times), do you know if this has been tryed before or have any guesses on how detrimental no IQs will be to this team?
10/4/2012 9:59 PM
I did do something similar maybe 5 years ago. 
This was before potential so there really was no cap on the players ratings so I went with high WE for the recruits.   Combine the no caps on the ratings and the extra practice minutes, my guys gained 300-400 points in 4 years.  I thought it was a pretty true test of high IQs vs players with low IQs, but with advantages in ratings of 100 points.

But I never went an entire season just trying one set.   I'd run 5-6 games with a motion, fastbreak for a few, and I also think this was the early days of combo defenses. 

I do have my own player value ratings and after this experiment I did double the impact of IQs in those ratings.
10/5/2012 7:22 AM
Looking at your stats as a team, so far it appears you are turning the ball over more than your opponents, which probably goes back to IQ. I didn't look into any of the stats too extensively, but that's an observation I made immediately.
10/5/2012 12:37 PM
There's a few stats tied to IQ that stand out, but they may also be because it is a freshman heavy team. More fouls than opponents, barely any assists, and less steals.
10/5/2012 7:21 PM (edited)
Posted by poncho0091 on 10/5/2012 12:37:00 PM (view original):
There's a few stats tied to IQ that stand out, but they may also be because it is a freshman heavy team. More fouls than opponents, barely any assists, and less steals.
I thought the same thing ... BUT ... IQ is how you tell a Freshman from a Senior (I think).  There is no other type of experience than getting a better IQ, therefore if these guys never get a better IQ then they will be "playing like Freshmen" their whole careers. 

Well, they will get better attributes, so they will improve based on those gains in attributes, but they will play at a lower level than others players who have similar attributes and also higher IQs.  The only real point to this test is to see if you can get better players by growing them faster.

I personally think you will not get better players, because the vast majority of players I recruit are MAXed out on attribute growth before their senior season ... so all I see happening here is that you will get to that MAXed out level as a Sophomore instead of as a Junior.  Once you get MAXed out, you no longer grow in attributes ... and you will also not grow in IQ, so the extra minutes will be wasted.

If everyone could grow in every attribute to 100, then this might work at Div-III and possibly Div-II ... but since players can not grow to that level in every attribute, at some point the team has maxed out growth.

That is not to say that you can't win with that team ... just that the team will not be at optimal performance once you have most of your players MAXed out.
10/5/2012 8:07 PM
Posted by bistiza on 10/5/2012 7:22:00 AM (view original):
Looking at your stats as a team, so far it appears you are turning the ball over more than your opponents, which probably goes back to IQ. I didn't look into any of the stats too extensively, but that's an observation I made immediately.
Well, i think it's still a little hard to tell much difference since they are all freshman. Once they are JRs and SRs it should be much easier to see differences. If as upperclassmen they are stil having big issues with TOs and such with good BH and PA attributes then we can be pretty sure the IQs are making a big difference.
10/5/2012 8:38 PM (edited)
Posted by hughesjr on 10/5/2012 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by poncho0091 on 10/5/2012 12:37:00 PM (view original):
There's a few stats tied to IQ that stand out, but they may also be because it is a freshman heavy team. More fouls than opponents, barely any assists, and less steals.
I thought the same thing ... BUT ... IQ is how you tell a Freshman from a Senior (I think).  There is no other type of experience than getting a better IQ, therefore if these guys never get a better IQ then they will be "playing like Freshmen" their whole careers. 

Well, they will get better attributes, so they will improve based on those gains in attributes, but they will play at a lower level than others players who have similar attributes and also higher IQs.  The only real point to this test is to see if you can get better players by growing them faster.

I personally think you will not get better players, because the vast majority of players I recruit are MAXed out on attribute growth before their senior season ... so all I see happening here is that you will get to that MAXed out level as a Sophomore instead of as a Junior.  Once you get MAXed out, you no longer grow in attributes ... and you will also not grow in IQ, so the extra minutes will be wasted.

If everyone could grow in every attribute to 100, then this might work at Div-III and possibly Div-II ... but since players can not grow to that level in every attribute, at some point the team has maxed out growth.

That is not to say that you can't win with that team ... just that the team will not be at optimal performance once you have most of your players MAXed out.
This could be true. Maybe they just reach their "ceiling" much faster than most teams and then stall out the last 2 seasons. Like consecutive PI appearances or 1st rd NT appearances and out 2 seasons in a row. Or maybe IQ doesn't have as much effect as we think though and they can get deep into the NT. I have a feeling your right though, and I agree it would make a buch bigger difference if there were no caps on the skills.  
10/5/2012 8:32 PM
So, although I am not sure, I am thinking about switching defenses-- Would you say practice the entire practice on the new defense and even though I won't be playing that, it won't really matter?  Thanks
10/5/2012 8:44 PM
Posted by tbird9423 on 10/5/2012 8:32:00 PM (view original):
So, although I am not sure, I am thinking about switching defenses-- Would you say practice the entire practice on the new defense and even though I won't be playing that, it won't really matter?  Thanks
Well, playing a particular OFF/DEF won't help you learn it faster. Only putting minutes into team practice will. If your team already is knowledgeable in a certain DEF you would be better off playing that defense until your IQs are equal or better in the new DEF you want to move to.
10/26/2012 4:52 PM
Thought I'd bump this to the top. I've been curious as to the results. Have there been updates made public, or did it go underground???
10/26/2012 5:09 PM
from what I see, we can definitely put one thing to rest, playing a defense without practicing it will pretty much get you nothing in terms of IQ.
11/7/2012 3:40 PM
hey robot...i see you finished the regular season 16-10 with an rpi of 199. how does that compare to what you expected out of this season, and what do you forecast for next season?
11/7/2012 5:35 PM
The team is playing pretty well. I actually gave alot of minutes to the incoming freshman this season and didn't expect to compete for the post season. Conference play is about to start and I will be adjusting the team to see if maybe i can get lucky and make into the NT. Next season i have schedule what should be a top 25 schedule and we will see how it turns out. I am expecting them to do quite well and make the NT next season. The team still has alot of room for growth. My PG Knight will eventually top out at 99-100 in perimeter. Blair will get to 60 per and his 42 LP hasn't changed from blue yet so he will be another scoring option. Delarosa my SF is still blue in LP and will hit at least 70 at this point. If I were practicing IQ I would expect this team to be AT LEAST a Sweet 16 team next season.

*Also, I think we can put to bed the playing a DEF/OFF will help players learn it. I would like to start a switching OFF/DEF strategy. I know some may feel like this gives me the advantage of surprise and could taint the results. However, if this team is able to make a Sweet 16 or more with F and D- IQs how much are they worth anyways? No amount of strategy should be able to overcome having that low of IQs unless they don't mean as much as we think.
11/7/2012 6:18 PM
i think there is some strategy in the offense switching, although once you have a team, built for one offense, there really shouldnt be much there. however, the value of switching defenses can be pretty high. tanncermcc was quite successful with man/zone/press iq in d1, when players grew so fast you could afford those minute.

but, i think its still a valid experiment if you change off/def to fit your opponent. and, if you can do alright like that, it might convince some people to put 10m/defense or something so they could at least have decent IQs, with the luxury to change at will.
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