All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Ripping off ESPN -> Trout vs Cabrera MVP
9/19/2012 5:00 PM
I say Trout should win in a landslide.
9/19/2012 5:06 PM
CABRERA
HAMILTON
JETER
TROUT
KONERKO
9/19/2012 5:41 PM
I dunno, I'm a pretty stat-y guy, and I love to point to various sabermetric stats on a very regular basis for all manner of discussions.  In this case, though, I'd have to say I'd lean towards Cabrera in spite of the WAR differential.  Cabrera's offensive stats have just been ridiculous this year.
9/19/2012 5:45 PM
He was better offensively in 2010 and 2011.

2012: 333/396/612
2011: 344/448/586
2010: 328/420/622

He's having a great offensive year but Trout is too and Trout's much, much, much more valuable when you factor in defense and baserunning.
9/19/2012 6:09 PM
Part of me really wants to see Trout get the MVP, and I think his stats would be more than deserving.  That being said, if Cabrera wins the Triple Crown....he would be my choice at this point.
9/19/2012 6:35 PM
I'm one of the guys who puts emphasis on the "valuable". It's not just a stat award. Both guys have carried their teams this season. If one team makes the playoffs and the other doesn't, to me, that seals the deal right there, as the guy whose team makes the playoffs - he'll have been that difference.

If they both make it or both miss - it'll be tough. Cabby deserved to win it last year though, so I could see him getting some "pity" votes, like ARod the year after he lost to Tejada.
9/19/2012 6:38 PM
The best player in the league is by definition the most valuable, regardless of how good his teammates are.
9/19/2012 7:27 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 9/19/2012 6:38:00 PM (view original):
The best player in the league is by definition the most valuable, regardless of how good his teammates are.
Agreed. Jptard apparently thinks the teams, minus the two guys in question, are equal, and that the two players are the big factor in whether each team makes the playoffs (or, as he said, "the guy whose team makes the playoffs - he'll have been that difference."). Sadly, he's not alone, and it ****** me off every year!
9/19/2012 8:34 PM
Cabrera
9/19/2012 8:48 PM
As far as WAR goes, Trout also leads the majors in offensive WAR. He has nearly the same OPS+ as Cabrera, 168 to 169, and leads the majors with 46 steals, having been caught only four times. The defensive gap is the hammer. But if Cabrera does win the Triple Crown, the award is his.
9/19/2012 9:50 PM
As far as WAR goes Denard Span is better than Josh Hamilton.

I'd go with Cabrera.
9/19/2012 10:41 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 9/19/2012 6:38:00 PM (view original):
The best player in the league is by definition the most valuable, regardless of how good his teammates are.
Depends how you interpret valuable. If you're just looking purely at the value of a player, I'd agree with you. If you're also looking at his value to his team, then that's not always the case.

If the Angels miss the playoffs, they would have done it with or without Trout. If the Tigers make it, I guarantee you they wouldn't have if Cabrera wasn't there. And vice versa if the Angels make it and the Tigers don't. Which is why I think it's a very easy decision if only one of those teams makes the playoffs.

As I said, making the playoffs isn't a prerequisite for winning the award. If neither the Angels or Tigers make it, Trout or Cabby will still win. But if two guys are close, playoffs are a legitimate tiebreaker.
9/20/2012 11:55 AM
     Depends how you interpret valuable. If you're just looking purely at the value of a player, I'd agree with you. 

How else would you look at the value of one player?

     If you're also looking at his value to his team, then that's not always the case. 

Same thing. The value of the player is his value to the team.

     If the Angels miss the playoffs, they would have done it with or without Trout. If the Tigers make it, I guarantee you they wouldn't have if Cabrera wasn't there. And      vice versa if the Angels make it and the Tigers don't. 

So we agree that both players are great. And we also agree that if their teams miss the playoffs it will be the fault of the other players on the team, not Trout's or Cabrera's because they could not have played better.

     Which is why I think it's a very easy decision if only one of those teams makes the playoffs.

What?

     If neither the Angels or Tigers make it, Trout or Cabby will still win. But if two guys are close, playoffs are a legitimate tiebreaker

The tiebreaker on an individual award is the quality of the player's teammates? That makes no ******* sense. But it doesn't even matter because Trout and Cabrera are not tied. Trout's season demolishes Cabrera's.

9/20/2012 12:45 PM
Posted by stinenavy on 9/19/2012 9:50:00 PM (view original):
As far as WAR goes Denard Span is better than Josh Hamilton.

I'd go with Cabrera.
That is entirely due to the defensive gap. Fielding occasionally causes ratings that gnaw at people. A spectacular performance in the field at a more important position can vault a player up to or beyond the level of one who appears better due to his large edge in offensive prowess. While fielding analysis is markedly improved from years passed, it is nowhere near the level of accuracy of offense.

If you are uncomfortable with the method used for calculating defensive WAR, or think it is incorrect in this case, you can always ignore it. Many do. And that gives Hamilton a lead of 4.6 to 2.8. Sort of like how Trout leads the majors in WAR regardless of defense.
9/20/2012 1:01 PM
Trout
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