All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > A-Rod: Told a little white lie?
8/5/2013 2:42 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/5/2013 2:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/5/2013 2:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/5/2013 2:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/5/2013 2:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/5/2013 2:01:00 PM (view original):
He should get 50 games like everyone else. It's bullshit that they are trying to give him more. He would have been better off actually failing a test.
So he should get a free pass on obstruction?
Sure. Like Melky did.
You're equating what Melky did to what ARod supposedly has done?
Neither one of us has any idea what Arod actually did. We do know that Bud is out to get him, so I take any leaks from MLB's side with a gigantic grain of salt.
If "Bud is out to get him", why do you think that is?

Is it possible (in your mind) that "Bud is out to get him" because MLB has a mountain of evidence that ARod has actively worked to obstruct the Biogenesis investigation?  Or did ARod just snub Bud at a cocktail party?
8/5/2013 2:43 PM
The policy says you can't be disciplined twice for the same use, so if A-Rod had tested positive and then they got evidence of the purchase of those drugs and he could tie it to the previous test, it wouldn't be a second violation.  I don't see anything about being forced to combine multiple uses/possession into a single violation just because you got all the evidence of them at once.

And really, my only point was that you really seemed to suggest that a failed test would somehow by definition be a worse offense than anything MLB could currently have on him.
8/5/2013 2:45 PM
Posted by AlCheez on 8/5/2013 2:37:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, that's not really true, but whatever.  
The JDA uses "violation." I guess you could argue that if MLB can prove Arod used PEDs multiple times, he deserves a 100 game or lifetime ban. But if MLB could prove that, they wouldn't negotiate. It's not going to hurt the relationship with the MLBPA if they can suspend him for life under the terms of the JDA.

I'd be willing to bet that they have a ton of circumstantial evidence but nothing so concrete that the case will be a slam dunk in front of an arbitrator.
8/5/2013 2:50 PM
Well, they don't actually have to prove he used since possession is also a violation, but I'm sure there's some truth to that last sentence.

That being said, it may be a moot point since the reports coming out now are that he's being suspended under the JDA and "other" parts of the CBA.
8/5/2013 2:51 PM
Posted by AlCheez on 8/5/2013 2:44:00 PM (view original):
The policy says you can't be disciplined twice for the same use, so if A-Rod had tested positive and then they got evidence of the purchase of those drugs and he could tie it to the previous test, it wouldn't be a second violation.  I don't see anything about being forced to combine multiple uses/possession into a single violation just because you got all the evidence of them at once.

And really, my only point was that you really seemed to suggest that a failed test would somehow by definition be a worse offense than anything MLB could currently have on him.
Put it this way, it's likely that there is evidence from Biogenesis that the other 12 players visited the clinic multiple times, paid for care multiple times, and received shipments multiple times. I don't think anyone believes that those 12 players only used PEDs received from the clinic once.

So why did MLB only suspend the other 12 for 50 games? Why did it suspend Braun for only 65? And why is it trying to get Arod for life?
8/5/2013 2:54 PM
So it's beyond the realm of possibility that they actually have more on A-Rod?
8/5/2013 2:55 PM
Are you unable to comprehend that the threat of "banning ARod for life" was being used as a tool to provide leverage in negotiations for a settlement?
8/5/2013 2:57 PM
Posted by AlCheez on 8/5/2013 2:54:00 PM (view original):
So it's beyond the realm of possibility that they actually have more on A-Rod?
They might. But I think a lot of it has to do with who Arod is. In my opinion, even with the same evidence, if his name was Fernando Martinez he would have received the 50 game suspension.
8/5/2013 2:58 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/5/2013 2:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 8/5/2013 2:54:00 PM (view original):
So it's beyond the realm of possibility that they actually have more on A-Rod?
They might. But I think a lot of it has to do with who Arod is. In my opinion, even with the same evidence, if his name was Fernando Martinez he would have received the 50 game suspension.
That seems like a quickly formed opinion given that we don't really know what evidence they have on any of these guys yet...
8/5/2013 2:59 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 8/5/2013 2:55:00 PM (view original):
Are you unable to comprehend that the threat of "banning ARod for life" was being used as a tool to provide leverage in negotiations for a settlement?
Of course. That's my point.

If MLB's evidence was so strong that they could justifiably consider Arod's actions to be multiple violations of the JDA, the threat of a lifetime ban wouldn't just be a threat to create leverage.
8/5/2013 2:59 PM
Posted by AlCheez on 8/5/2013 2:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/5/2013 2:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 8/5/2013 2:54:00 PM (view original):
So it's beyond the realm of possibility that they actually have more on A-Rod?
They might. But I think a lot of it has to do with who Arod is. In my opinion, even with the same evidence, if his name was Fernando Martinez he would have received the 50 game suspension.
That seems like a quickly formed opinion given that we don't really know what evidence they have on any of these guys yet...
True. It's pure speculation.
8/5/2013 3:02 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/5/2013 2:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/5/2013 2:55:00 PM (view original):
Are you unable to comprehend that the threat of "banning ARod for life" was being used as a tool to provide leverage in negotiations for a settlement?
Of course. That's my point.

If MLB's evidence was so strong that they could justifiably consider Arod's actions to be multiple violations of the JDA, the threat of a lifetime ban wouldn't just be a threat to create leverage.
Why are you unable to move outside of the JDA?

If he is guilty of actually obstructing the investigation to the extent that has been rumored, that goes way outside of the JDA.

You seem to be stuck inside the JDA box.
8/5/2013 3:08 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 8/5/2013 3:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/5/2013 2:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/5/2013 2:55:00 PM (view original):
Are you unable to comprehend that the threat of "banning ARod for life" was being used as a tool to provide leverage in negotiations for a settlement?
Of course. That's my point.

If MLB's evidence was so strong that they could justifiably consider Arod's actions to be multiple violations of the JDA, the threat of a lifetime ban wouldn't just be a threat to create leverage.
Why are you unable to move outside of the JDA?

If he is guilty of actually obstructing the investigation to the extent that has been rumored, that goes way outside of the JDA.

You seem to be stuck inside the JDA box.
I think both MLB and the MLBPA would prefer that this stay within the JDA.
8/5/2013 3:14 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/5/2013 2:57:00 PM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 8/5/2013 2:54:00 PM (view original):
So it's beyond the realm of possibility that they actually have more on A-Rod?
They might. But I think a lot of it has to do with who Arod is. In my opinion, even with the same evidence, if his name was Fernando Martinez he would have received the 50 game suspension.

I addressed this a few days ago.

Pettite was not Clemens, Giambi was not Bonds.    Players are not given the same treatment, good or bad, because they have a different standing in the game.

8/5/2013 3:22 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/5/2013 3:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/5/2013 3:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/5/2013 2:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/5/2013 2:55:00 PM (view original):
Are you unable to comprehend that the threat of "banning ARod for life" was being used as a tool to provide leverage in negotiations for a settlement?
Of course. That's my point.

If MLB's evidence was so strong that they could justifiably consider Arod's actions to be multiple violations of the JDA, the threat of a lifetime ban wouldn't just be a threat to create leverage.
Why are you unable to move outside of the JDA?

If he is guilty of actually obstructing the investigation to the extent that has been rumored, that goes way outside of the JDA.

You seem to be stuck inside the JDA box.
I think both MLB and the MLBPA would prefer that this stay within the JDA.
Well, it's not.  The discipline is coming from both the JDA and the CBA.  Because some of his infractions go beyond the boundaries of the JDA.
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