10/16/2012 12:28 PM
Is there any truth to the rumor that hands for wr and te do not factor in at all.
10/16/2012 12:43 PM
Nope.  Not true. 

Hands do matter for catching footballs but with the way it gets factored in with so many other attributes, its significance is not nearly what you would expect.  So it isn't as important as it should be but to say it does not factor in at all is wrong.
10/16/2012 12:44 PM
I know it factors in heavily to them fumbling the football. Not sure it makes any difference for actually catching the ball...
10/16/2012 1:47 PM
Ive noticed DBs with high hands and high GI seem to get a few more picks than without... no tangible proof to that yet, compiling at the moment.
10/16/2012 5:46 PM
Yea Kenyon a few seasons ago in DIII had a group of receivers in the high 70's low 80's speed with hands in the 20's and 30's and they wre unstoppable. Fastest DIII team I have ever seen. SO I would agree with it is not huge in catching but it does help but I believe it definitely factors in fumbling or not fumbling!!!!!!!!1 
10/16/2012 9:32 PM (edited)
Does the best guess statistical values in the Gridiron Dynasty guide have any relevance to the current game?  I don't mean this to be sarcastic or to start a debate.  I am simply wondering if it is dated information.  Hands are listed as the current best stat for recievers.  This is not the first time I have seen discussion about how those values don't seem to be accurate.  So what gives?  Here is a copy from the guide for reference:


Current Guess Equations:

QB - 0.10*ATH+0.10*SPD+0.18*STR+0.07*HAN+0.25*GI+0.08*ELU+0.22*TEC

RB - 0.20*ATH+0.23*SPD+0.20*STR+0.03*HAN+0.03*GI+0.27*ELU+0.04*TEC

FB - 0.13*ATH+0.03*SPD+0.22*STR+0.25*BLK+0.04*HAN+0.18*GI+0.03*ELU+0.12*TEC

 WR - 0.15*ATH+0.17*SPD+0.04*STR+0.21*HAN+0.17*GI+0.20*ELU+0.06*TEC

TE - 0.06*ATH+0.04*SPD+0.07*STR+0.09*BLK+0.28*HAN+0.15*GI+0.22*ELU+0.09*TEC

OL - 0.10*ATH+0.12*SPD+0.20*STR+0.25*BLK+0.20*GI+0.13*TEC

DE - 0.12*ATH+0.14*SPD+0.13*STR+0.19*TKL+0.10*GI+0.15*ELU+0.17*TEC

DT - 0.12*ATH+0.04*SPD+0.22*STR+0.28*TKL+0.06*GI+0.13*ELU+0.15*TEC

ILB - 0.12*ATH+0.04*SPD+0.13*STR+0.28*TKL+0.22*GI+0.06*ELU+0.15*TEC

OLB - 0.12*ATH+0.17*SPD+0.13*STR+0.15*TKL+0.18*GI+0.10*ELU+0.15*TEC

CB - 0.06*ATH+0.17*SPD+0.08*STR+0.04*TKL+0.09*HAN+0.22*GI+0.08*ELU+0.26*TEC

S - 0.10*ATH+0.17*SPD+0.08*STR+0.22*TKL+0.06*HAN+0.26*GI+0.04*ELU+0.07*TEC

K - 0.40*STR+0.15*GI+0.45*TEC

P- 0.45*STR+0.15*GI+0.40*TEC

10/16/2012 7:48 PM

If hands impacts fumbling, how come hands have so little value for QBs and RBs?   

 

QB - 0.10*ATH+0.10*SPD+0.18*STR+0.07*HAN+0.25*GI+0.08*ELU+0.22*TEC

RB - 0.20*ATH+0.23*SPD+0.20*STR+0.03*HAN+0.03*GI+0.27*ELU+0.04*TEC

10/16/2012 10:21 PM
I'm a firm believer in the fact that the offense/defense & style you play makes the value of attributes different. If not the highest rated team by guess would win the NT every year, right?
10/16/2012 10:56 PM
Posted by coach_deen on 10/16/2012 10:21:00 PM (view original):
I'm a firm believer in the fact that the offense/defense & style you play makes the value of attributes different. If not the highest rated team by guess would win the NT every year, right?
I agree with this.

I woudl also point out that if you look at the WEIGHT of each attribute in the equations, it just further reinforces that it is really only ONE COMPONENT of a good WR.  To say that HANDS does not matter at all is just a gross overstatement.

You have to also consider that the WR ratings (as an example) are for a well rounded receiver....and those weights are the best judgement of the many contributors as to what the weights should be.  They are based on coach experience and the developer input that just says which attributes are "highly important" vs those that are "medium importance".

For my WRs (for my non wishbone team), I have built the passing offense around speed.  I don't want hands of stone, but HANDS is not the only factor.  If the guy can't get open...then he cannot catch a pass.  If the QB (very important to the passing game I would think) can't find the receiver...then he cannot catch the ball.

A few seasons ago I found an STL WR at D3 who started with like 70 for hands.  I put a RS on him and he started for 4 seasons, mostly as the slot receiver.  He was a great performer, and statistically my best ever.  He was not the normal kind of reciever that I would recruit, but he was absolutely solid all 4 seasons.

I think to sammy's example, you can find and exploit players that have "spikes" in their core attributes.  If all of their cores are "average"....they will probably play like "average".

NAME GP RANK REC RANK YDS RANK YPC RANK TD'S RANK
Jason Jennings 63 3 224 1 4121 1 18.4 2 29 3
10/16/2012 11:00 PM
Posted by samson75 on 10/16/2012 7:49:00 PM (view original):

If hands impacts fumbling, how come hands have so little value for QBs and RBs?   

 

QB - 0.10*ATH+0.10*SPD+0.18*STR+0.07*HAN+0.25*GI+0.08*ELU+0.22*TEC

RB - 0.20*ATH+0.23*SPD+0.20*STR+0.03*HAN+0.03*GI+0.27*ELU+0.04*TEC

Because everything else is just "more" important.  Go recruit a RB with HANDS of 0 and see what happens.

Also, I personally believe that HANDS for QBs is under-rated.

As I mention in another post, these equations are not the gospel....they are the result of a collaboration of coaches and their inputs....you should develop your own equations to help you get the players that you desire and put more/less weight on the factors that you think are important or not.
10/16/2012 11:47 PM
Thanks for the responses.  Not easy to make sense of the game in it's current state since it seems like all info is geared towards the upcoming reboot.  I try to use the guide but like you said, I also have my own ideas about what attributes are important based on the formations I use, and most posts seem to show the experienced players have their own ideas as well.  So far, I am not doing all that well lol...  Although most of those issues are recruting related...

So hands are important.  I suppose that is why punters should have at least some hands rating?  If hands control fumbling, .03 for RBs seems grossly understated regardless of formations.  

From the info in this thread, hands are both for catching and carrying.  I will keep that in mind.  Thanks again!     

 

10/16/2012 11:55 PM
The way I understand it is Hands is important as it impacts more than one facet of the game, however, it is not the "most important" in any.

STR, I believe, has a direct correlation with fumbles. You can recruit an RB with 0 hands and 80 STR and not get killed by fumbles, although he will most likely fumble more than an RB with 70 STR and 40 HNDS
10/17/2012 10:18 AM
Posted by samson75 on 10/16/2012 11:47:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for the responses.  Not easy to make sense of the game in it's current state since it seems like all info is geared towards the upcoming reboot.  I try to use the guide but like you said, I also have my own ideas about what attributes are important based on the formations I use, and most posts seem to show the experienced players have their own ideas as well.  So far, I am not doing all that well lol...  Although most of those issues are recruting related...

So hands are important.  I suppose that is why punters should have at least some hands rating?  If hands control fumbling, .03 for RBs seems grossly understated regardless of formations.  

From the info in this thread, hands are both for catching and carrying.  I will keep that in mind.  Thanks again!     

 

I don't think all the information is geared towards the upcoming reboot.  I think the GD guide, GUESS ratings, and help faqs are all based on how GD 2.0 was supposed to be.  Obviously it fell quite short. 

When GD 3.0 comes out, lots of stats meanings could get changed ... probably including hands and strength.  Won't that be a game changer?  Since some of that is still getting worked out, you and I have absolutely no idea how to best set up our teams for the future.  Perhaps we will learn what we need to do when we see the beta.
10/17/2012 11:44 AM
devindupre  and a few others along with myself had a D3 RB in our first season as forplayforcash.I forget the RBS name but he hands of 1   yes thats ONE and we called him "Nubs"


Niubs first play from scrimmage he caught a 75 yd TD pass.  We joked that it got wedged in his facemask.He went on to have 4 great seasons and seldom fumbled the ball
10/17/2012 11:58 AM
I am aware the guide and best guess ratings are based on the current engine.  However, when asking for clarification, you will either get conflicting answers from experienced players, or be told it does not matter since it is changing in the future.  That makes it tough for players who are looking to improve now and leaves the only definitive info based on the future.  It is easy to say work it out on your own, but it does cost 10 bucks a season while we do that.  10 bucks is not much, but after 5 seasons you have the price of other unnamed console games that already have clearly defined statistical categories.  

I have not played long enough to determine whether strength or hands impact fumbling, or which does more.  I will keep an eye out now though.  Looking back on my initial seasons, It would seem that may explain some of the fumbles by my RBs.   

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