All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > Using HoJo for the first time
12/10/2012 7:51 PM
That 1989 season pops up on a lot of teams, so I decided I would give him a shot. Couldn't be happier for the price. 80 mil. Granted, it was ATL fulton county.

702 PA / 615 AB / .317 / .392 / .543 / 32 / 132 (38/47 SB)

What surprised me the most was his defense, with only 1 error, 21- plays, and 2 plus plays. In my opinion, that's better defense than some of the B-/B- SS guys, who seem to make 30 errors and 10 minus plays. I don't think there is a better deal at the shortstop position.


12/10/2012 8:45 PM
Posted by bringinsxybc on 12/10/2012 7:51:00 PM (view original):
That 1989 season pops up on a lot of teams, so I decided I would give him a shot. Couldn't be happier for the price. 80 mil. Granted, it was ATL fulton county.

702 PA / 615 AB / .317 / .392 / .543 / 32 / 132 (38/47 SB)

What surprised me the most was his defense, with only 1 error, 21- plays, and 2 plus plays. In my opinion, that's better defense than some of the B-/B- SS guys, who seem to make 30 errors and 10 minus plays. I don't think there is a better deal at the shortstop position.


If he's 100%, I don't think he'll make any errors.  If he plays all 162 games at SS, he'll usually be close to 30 minus plays.  But I agree, that season is a good value.
12/11/2012 12:28 AM
'89 HOJO's defensive adjusted line.
.310/.380/.502....  Saves $58K on pitching


I like '98 Vizquel.  He is a bit more expense, but might be a better value when facing and behind great pitchers.

'98 Omar Vizquel
.337/.390/.422... Saves $321K on pitching.

Just for reference.

'89 Fernandez
.329/.360/.474... Saves $420 on Pitching

12/11/2012 7:29 PM
HOJO gets everything though - he has the speed, offense (contact, OBP and power) and defense - 

cant beat him in my opinion.
12/12/2012 10:55 AM
Posted by zubinsum on 12/11/2012 12:28:00 AM (view original):
'89 HOJO's defensive adjusted line.
.310/.380/.502....  Saves $58K on pitching


I like '98 Vizquel.  He is a bit more expense, but might be a better value when facing and behind great pitchers.

'98 Omar Vizquel
.337/.390/.422... Saves $321K on pitching.

Just for reference.

'89 Fernandez
.329/.360/.474... Saves $420 on Pitching

Using a defensive baseline of zero errors and no plus or minus plays, I calculate HJs adjusted numbers to be .249/.336/.521. Omar's line basically remains at .284/.352/.348.
12/12/2012 11:47 PM (edited)
Posted by ncmusician_7 on 12/12/2012 10:55:00 AM (view original):
Posted by zubinsum on 12/11/2012 12:28:00 AM (view original):
'89 HOJO's defensive adjusted line.
.310/.380/.502....  Saves $58K on pitching


I like '98 Vizquel.  He is a bit more expense, but might be a better value when facing and behind great pitchers.

'98 Omar Vizquel
.337/.390/.422... Saves $321K on pitching.

Just for reference.

'89 Fernandez
.329/.360/.474... Saves $420 on Pitching

Using a defensive baseline of zero errors and no plus or minus plays, I calculate HJs adjusted numbers to be .249/.336/.521. Omar's line basically remains at .284/.352/.348.
I use a baseline of the average number of + plays, - plays errors and double plays at a position per inning
I then adjust for each event above average as follows:
     + play = 0.5 hits, 0.5 bases reached, 1.11 bases (an average of a non hr hit [1.22 bases] and 1 base), +16K pitching
     - play  = -0.5 hits, -0.5 bases reached, -1.11 bases, -$16K 
       error  =  -1 hit, -1 base reached, -1 base, -$32K
       t error=  error and -1 additional base
       dp      = +1 hit, +1 base reached, +1 base, +$32K

I then add the totals back into a player's average performance history adjusting by line-up position.

For Example, 2001 Rey Sanchez and his 416 PA are affected on where he hits in your line up.

da avg .334 .335 .336 .338 .339 .340 .342 .343 .345
da obp .354 .355 .356 .357 .358 .360 .361 .362 .364
da slg .410 .411 .413 .415 .416 .418 .420 .422 .425
K$p $206 $211 $216 $221 $227 $232 $239 $245 $252

So is '13 Miller Huggins:

da avg .275 .275 .274 .274 .274 .274 .273 .273 .273
da obp .395 .395 .395 .395 .394 .394 .394 .394 .393
da slg .308 .307 .307 .307 .306 .306 .305 .305 .304
K$p -$49 -$51 -$52 -$53 -$54 -$56 -$57 -$59 -$60


12/12/2012 10:58 PM
PA AVG OBP SLG H BB H+BB NEGATIVE PLAYS ADJ H ADJ AVG ADJ OBP ADJ SLG
720.500 0.296 0.378 0.568 188.427 83.922 272.349 30 158.427 0.249 0.336 0.521
12/12/2012 10:59 PM
720.5 is HJs PA plus the extra 10%.  For SS, I consider a minus play and an error to be of equivalent value (a single).  I prefer using the # numbers, rather than performance history.
12/12/2012 11:48 PM (edited)
Posted by ncmusician_7 on 12/12/2012 11:00:00 PM (view original):
720.5 is HJs PA plus the extra 10%.  For SS, I consider a minus play and an error to be of equivalent value (a single).  I prefer using the # numbers, rather than performance history.
My valuing of defense is admitedly conservative and skews to valuing fielding over + plays.
12/13/2012 7:43 PM
Posted by zubinsum on 12/12/2012 11:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by ncmusician_7 on 12/12/2012 11:00:00 PM (view original):
720.5 is HJs PA plus the extra 10%.  For SS, I consider a minus play and an error to be of equivalent value (a single).  I prefer using the # numbers, rather than performance history.
My valuing of defense is admitedly conservative and skews to valuing fielding over + plays.
With outfielders I might agree with that, but I think + plays are more valuable if from an infielder.
12/13/2012 10:12 PM
Using your rules,
 
HoJo: .292/.362/.496/-$69K
98OV: .351/.404/.434/+$420K
12/13/2012 11:34 PM
If you've already adjusted the offensive line for defense, isn't adding a pitchers' salary adjustment redundant?  IE you've already taken that damage to your pitchers into account in the modified offensive line?  Not that both aren't meaningful ways to look at it, but I think by listing it the way you are you are at least suggesting an over-emphasis on defense.
12/14/2012 12:49 AM
Posted by dahsdebater on 12/13/2012 11:34:00 PM (view original):
If you've already adjusted the offensive line for defense, isn't adding a pitchers' salary adjustment redundant?  IE you've already taken that damage to your pitchers into account in the modified offensive line?  Not that both aren't meaningful ways to look at it, but I think by listing it the way you are you are at least suggesting an over-emphasis on defense.
If you save a hit (or an error), then you allowing your pitcher to face a batter at a later time.  I don't think my logic is in err.
12/14/2012 2:56 AM
Debateable, if you're basing it exclusively on PAs saved then it's really not that absolute a number.  But your English is definitely "in err," no question on that one...
12/14/2012 3:26 PM

No, the fact that you are saving pitches (equal to a batter faced) is not really debatable.  How those pitches are valued can be argued.

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