All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Patriots 9.5 points favorites over Ravens
2/27/2013 3:08 PM
Generic biz statement:

<So and so is true, and I will state that there's no way you'll convince me otherwise.  Also, I will give no evidence to support my statement, despite mountains of evidence you present that goes against my argument.  If you become frustrated, and stop arguing against me, it won't be because of the grand, generic statements I make without evidence, it will be because my debating skills are unmatched by anyone here.>
2/27/2013 3:09 PM
Posted by bistiza on 2/27/2013 3:07:00 PM (view original):
The system wasn't dependent upon keeping the same offensive coordinator, and it hasn't changed. Players were found with more talent who better fit within that system, but it's been the same the entire time. They even had Cassel using it, and it helped him guide them to 11 wins.
So who teaches the system?
2/27/2013 3:12 PM
I don't need to prove anything to you or anyone else, burnsy.

I have every right to believe what I want to believe.

2/27/2013 3:18 PM
You don't NEED to prove a thing, but you continue to try, sort of.  And I'm not arguing that you shouldn't believe whatever you want.  Just to provide some evidence, to show your work.

Who teaches the magic system that has made Brady appear great?  Who passes it down throughout the years?  Who made it originally?


2/27/2013 3:37 PM
This is how it works:

I tell people what I think of a given subject. They attack what I think, and I defend it. I don't ever try to prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt to anyone. You believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want.

I don't need to know everything about everything to be able to know it works.

2/27/2013 4:00 PM
When you "defend" your points by essentially repeating your original point, it's not really defending yourself, or arguing anything.  Saying "I can believe whatever I want to" is fine, but it doesn't help to convey your message effectively.

Alex Smith struggled as a QB for a long time.  People argued he wasn't getting a fair shot, because the OC kept changing, giving Alex a different message each time, a different way to play the game.

The Pat's OC's change fairly often.  Brady's production stays the same, and you argue it's the system.  I'm just trying to figure out what you mean.  Are they the only team that instruct their OCs to use the same system? Who put this system in place?
2/27/2013 5:12 PM
Posted by bistiza on 2/27/2013 3:37:00 PM (view original):
This is how it works:

I tell people what I think of a given subject. They attack what I think, and I defend it. I don't ever try to prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt to anyone. You believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want.

I don't need to know everything about everything to be able to know it works.

People only "attack" you when you blindly choose not to read anything of substance that we've written.  We've provided stats.  We've shown figures that prove Brady is great.  We've shown his awards and his winning.  We've compared him to other players that you deem great and how they stack up identically.  Yet....you still say he's overrated and that he's not a top 30 QB of all time.  

All this running around just proves 1 thing.  Your hatred of Brady and the Pats...and that you fail to see the obvious.  That's all.

No, you haven't debunked or befuddled anyone or anything here.
2/27/2013 7:02 PM
biz has proven himself a troll who simply hates Brady.

There is a lot of Brady hate on this board from other owners, but ALL of them will tell you Brady is a great QB.
2/28/2013 9:53 AM
People attack because they are ignorant and can't argue without doing so.

All you've ever shown about Brady are the very reasons you over rate him. Nothing you've said has even come REMOTELY close to showing me Brady isn't as over rated as I say he is. Every reason you give for saying he's great only reinforces the idea that you're over rating him.

If anything your "evidence" has only cemented my belief he is over rated.

jtp,

I'm not a troll at all. I actually believe in the things I'm saying - trolls say things just to cause trouble.

And if all of those people say he's a great QB, then they over rate him too.
2/28/2013 10:16 AM
You just ignore how many stats he's top 10 in and then continue to say there has been no proof given other than pointing out others mistakes.  You are willfully ignoring the facts.
2/28/2013 10:19 AM
I'm not sure why you put quotes around the word evidence.  Unless you also have a different definition of the word than I do, which wouldn't shock me.

But again, it's another post attempting to discredit my argument without evidence of your own.
2/28/2013 10:22 AM
He has zero evidence for his argument.  It was never an evidence based argument.
2/28/2013 10:53 AM
You just ignore how many stats he's top 10 in and then continue to say there has been no proof given other than pointing out others mistakes.  You are willfully ignoring the facts.

I don't care how many stats categories he has lead. Those stats are the product of the system he played in. Put him on, say, the Cleveland Browns and have him work with their talent and system and he's probably out of the NFL now, just like so many of their other QBs who would have done just what Brady did if they had only been on the Patriots.
I'm not sure why you put quotes around the word evidence.
I did that because what you presented isn't really evidence of anything, so to call it evidence requires quotation marks.

As for my own evidence, I provided you with a number of reasons many people over rate Brady - Super Bowl, playoff, and other team wins; a talented team around him; the Patriots offensive system, etc.

Those things still stand as the reasons Brady is over rated. Nothing you've said has changed any of it.
2/28/2013 11:01 AM
Do you ever base anything on reality, or is it all what if? It's pretty convenient to base your claims on zero fact when you don't have to prove anything.
2/28/2013 11:02 AM
Leading in a stat category is evidence of being a great quarterback.  

Saying that the stats are a product of the system he played in is not.  That's an opinion that you haven't supported with evidence.
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