All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Vote for best group of drafted QBs
2/27/2013 2:38 PM
burnsy makes a great point here, fellas.
2/27/2013 2:38 PM
OK, how's this:  Manning's teams were outperformed by Brady's teams.  Young's teams were outperformed by Favre's and Aikman's teams.  Repeatedly.
2/27/2013 2:44 PM
Yes, and I'd argue the Cowboys were consistently better than the 49ers.  It doesn't mean Aikman was "clutch" or better than anyone, it means that the Cowboys had the best team, and Aikman participated in making it the best team.  I know you hate hypotheticals, but if you swap Aikman and Young, I'm thinking Young has a lot more rings than the 1 he has.
2/27/2013 2:56 PM
I agree with burnsy on this.

Just because a QB's team outperforms another (or several other) teams in the playoffs or Super Bowl does not necessarily make that QB better than his counterpart on the opposing team.

2/27/2013 3:06 PM
I knew two things were going to happen in this draft:
1.  Post-season records would mean too much.
2.  Old school QB would get shortchanged.

Here's how my draft went and why:
1.  PManning.  If he wins a couple more playoff games and/or Super Bowls, everyone says he's the best.   He was obviously superior to Montana in skills but Montana won games with a newfangled, at the time, offense.  People rub Montana's balls like a magic genie will pop out because of this.  So Manning is #2 unless he does something special in Denver in the playoffs.  And, for the record, he DID NOT allow a Ravens WR to get behind him when the most important thing to do was NOT let a Ravens WR get behind you.
2.  Because of Manning's post-season deficiencies, I knew I needed a "winner".   Bart Starr is probably the anti-Peyton.   Never put up big numbers on a run-first team in what was a run-first league.   But he won playoff games and played really well in them.  However, because of the lack of numbers, I figured he'd be shortchanged.   Make no mistake, he's a top 10 QB now.
3.  Jim Kelly.  Kind of a 'tweener.   Put up some good numbers and won some playoff games.   But he's known for losing FOUR Super Bowls.   Swap the performance of his kickers and Brady's and people are speaking of Kelly as an all-time great.  I always thought he acted like a dick so, on that alone, I've got him somewhere in the top 20. 
4.  Sonny Jurgensen.   He was a stat-stud for bad teams in the 60s.   Retired at #3 in total passing yards.  Hall of Famer.   At pick 31, he was easily the best QB left.  But, being from the 60s with no playoff games, I knew no one would give him props.   And no one has.   Learn some NFL history, fucktards.
2/27/2013 3:39 PM
Peyton Manning is already the greatest QB ever in my opinion. If the Colts had beaten the Saints in 09 and/or the Broncos win a Super Bowl under him, most of you who over rate the importance of Super Bowl wins will come around to the same truth.
2/27/2013 3:42 PM
Montana and PManning should be 1 and 2 on anybody's list.  The only argument should be who is #1 and who is #2.
2/27/2013 3:48 PM
The only people who rate Montana over Peyton are people who over rate the 4 to 1 Super Bowl ring count.

If Peyton had won 3 more rings, there would be no one in their right mind who would ever argue Peyton is the greatest in NFL history.

I think Montana is great but I don't know that he is number two behind Peyton. Heck, I think Steve Young had more ability in many ways but didn't get the team success Montana did.

2/27/2013 4:52 PM

Peyton Manning and Steve Young are similar, with the edge going to Peyton because of the length of time he has been able to sustain his level.  But the reality is that despite the big regular season numbers (and MVPs and passing titles), they fell short in a TON of championship games.  If you put one ahead of the other, that's fine and understandable.  Both are top-8, maybe top-5 quarterbacks.

Bart Starr was the quintessential "game-manager".  He did what was necessary to win championship games on the Lombardi-led teams, and almost NEVER lost in the playoffs.  He is NOT a top-10 quarterback in terms of skills or impact on championship teams, but he does a bunch of rings.  Remember, those teams, even with all those Hall-of-Famers, barely beat Dandy Don Meredith and the Cowboys in consecutive NFC championship games.  Of course, then the Packers slaughtered the Chiefs and the Raiders...

Jeez, if you want a gimmicky offense, then the K-gun was a much bigger gimmick than the West Coast offense.  I like Jim Kelly as a top-20 pick, and he's underrated because of the four consecutive losses, ignoring the fact that nobody else got to four straight games (maybe Starr or Graham may have in the pre-SB days)  Like I said, he was drafted the same year as Marino, won more division titles, won more playoff games, got to more Super Bowls, and skipped a year or two in the USFL.

I'm probably one of the only ones who actually saw Jurgensen.  He was flabby by the time he got to the Redskins (and was traded for Norm Snead, for god's sake), and was passed over for Billy Kilmer.  Billy ******* Kilmer!  Supposedly, he was the best thrower of the 60's, but his teams never won, so I'm not sure who they were comparing him to.  He'd be like picking Kyle Boller because he threw the ball through the uprights from his knees from 50 yards away. 

2/28/2013 9:22 AM
If I told you that there was a group of 4 that, combined, led the league in passing yards 11 times, completion percentage 21 times, TDs 9 times, and QB rating 18 times, would you want to pick that team?  

Would you want that group more than the group that led the league in passing yards a combined 0 times, completion percentage 6 times, TDs 4 times, and QB rating 3 times?
2/28/2013 10:27 AM
Posted by bistiza on 2/27/2013 3:48:00 PM (view original):
The only people who rate Montana over Peyton are people who over rate the 4 to 1 Super Bowl ring count.

If Peyton had won 3 more rings, there would be no one in their right mind who would ever argue Peyton is the greatest in NFL history.

I think Montana is great but I don't know that he is number two behind Peyton. Heck, I think Steve Young had more ability in many ways but didn't get the team success Montana did.

Manning just made too many mistakes to be considered better than Montana.
2/28/2013 10:33 AM

I don't even know how true that is.   As I pointed out, Manning didn't blow coverage with virtually no time left on the clock.   He threw a bad pick in OT but, if Denver's vaunted D plays like an average D, they advance.    Picking one play and saying "Same ol' Peyton blowing another one" doesn't necessarily ring true.

And this applies to all QB who didn't "win". 

2/28/2013 10:38 AM
Haha, that's just one game and a partial at that. Don't forget the pick six, fumble, and audible into a run on third and seven near the end. That's the third time, off the top of my head, I remember him calling run audibles on third and long in the playoffs. Oh for three. The list of manning miscues is a long one. He was definitely the best QB I've ever seen...but Joe's hardware put him at number one for me. You play to win the game.
2/28/2013 10:39 AM
That should say Manning is definitely number one.
2/28/2013 10:39 AM
Denver's just lucky they had two kick returns for TDs in that game.
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