All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Lost to an at-large 16 seed last night
2/27/2013 11:12 AM
Seems like it's already been proven anecdotally here, but I'm positive the PPR slotting doesn't change once the NT/PIT begins
2/27/2013 11:15 AM
ok, looking at your conf, you have 5 other teams in. there *might* be a logical explanation here, but i cant see the projection report at the time, nor the ultimate seeding, which is what i would need to say for sure. but without a doubt, it seems to me for this to be "expected behavior", FOUR of your conferences mates MUST have taken spots in the four bottom-half regions. there are additional constraints but i think that is the bare minimum, and given those four, i could believe it might be possible for the other constraints to be met (no region having a spot for you due to a conf mate being there, until the one you got into, is really what needs to be met). 

so, if you look in each region, is one of your conference mates a 2, 3, 6, 7, 10, 11, 14, or 15 seed? really, those 14/15 seeds would not satisfy the constraint, if those teams were lower than you on the projection report. 

if the answer is YES, all 4 regions have a conf mate, this may not be a bug. however, id send a ticket regardless. dropping from a 13 to a 16 is ridiculous, and i think that is probably a pretty ubiquitous opinion. but still, a "hey this isnt working" ticket and a "hey this is stupid" ticket are a little different, and if you send the former, and it turns out to be working, it seems like seble and co tend to ignore follow up arguments of the second variety. not ignore, but, care less maybe? 
2/27/2013 11:16 AM
anyone in that world can do the checking really, doesnt have to be tarvalon... i think the OP has a very legit case for sending a ticket too.
2/27/2013 12:00 PM
agreed, whitworth seeding makes little sense. 
2/27/2013 1:10 PM
gillispie hit the nail on the head. In one region, I have a conference mate at 10. In one, I have a conference mate at 3. In one, I have a conference mate at 7. In one, I have a conference mate at 2. 

Additionally, there was one 13 seed lower than me on the projection report, and I have a conference mate at 12 in that region. So I was forced to slide ten places down the projection report to avoid a conference-mate in my sub-regional. 

In real life, there's a rule that no one can slide down more than one seed to keep them away from conference-mates. Obviously, this is not a rule in WIS. Seems like it would've been easier just to give Lewis and Clark a one seed and leave me at 13. L&C is ranked #1 anyways. 
2/27/2013 1:14 PM
not ignore, but, care less maybe?

Is it possible to care less than zero?
2/27/2013 2:39 PM
Posted by tarvolon on 2/27/2013 1:10:00 PM (view original):
gillispie hit the nail on the head. In one region, I have a conference mate at 10. In one, I have a conference mate at 3. In one, I have a conference mate at 7. In one, I have a conference mate at 2. 

Additionally, there was one 13 seed lower than me on the projection report, and I have a conference mate at 12 in that region. So I was forced to slide ten places down the projection report to avoid a conference-mate in my sub-regional. 

In real life, there's a rule that no one can slide down more than one seed to keep them away from conference-mates. Obviously, this is not a rule in WIS. Seems like it would've been easier just to give Lewis and Clark a one seed and leave me at 13. L&C is ranked #1 anyways. 
well, that makes sense, so i guess its not a bug - but it still sucks! i agree with the real life rule, sliding from a 13 to 16 to potentially avoid a situation where you pull some crazy upsets and miraculously make the elite 8, and possibly at that point (but probably not) have to face a conference mate.... that is just retarded :O
2/27/2013 2:49 PM (edited)
also, note that WIS will *never* move a team up when they process that team, for any reason. you can get a better seed as a result of a team ahead of you moving down, but that is the only way.
2/27/2013 2:43 PM
Well, they could've also moved Chapman or Menlo down a single seed line. Everybody else in my conference would've had to move up or down multiple seed lines (like me). 
2/27/2013 3:18 PM (edited)
Posted by tarvolon on 2/27/2013 2:43:00 PM (view original):
Well, they could've also moved Chapman or Menlo down a single seed line. Everybody else in my conference would've had to move up or down multiple seed lines (like me). 
not sure who those teams are, but i wasnt making a point/commenting about what the common sense solution was. these seeding things are actually fairly tricky to get just right, especially with all the subjectivity. i was only commenting on how their algorithm works - they will never look to see if the #5 team getting the #4 spot would make life easier for everyone. they only try to bump down.

effectively, they just go team by team, from top of the projection report to #64 (or whatever it is with automatic qualifiers who wouldn't get at large bids), and try to fit them in. if a team taking the next spot is a conference conflict, they try the next spot, until they find one or give up and just put the team there anyway. its a decently simple approach that usually works, i think if they simply stop-gapped it at dropping a seed, it would be "good enough" in basically any case. but obviously, that simple approach is not going to find more ideal solutions like the ones you mention. 
2/27/2013 5:27 PM
Chapman and Menlo are conference-mates of mine, they had 3 and 7 seeds. Dropping either of them by one would've allowed me to take a 14. 

Although I guess the solution they did do was the simplest. They could've moved Rennselear Poly (another 13 seed) to the region I should've gone in and let me take their spot, but the region I should've gotten contained the only other team from Rennselear Poly's conference (a 14 seed), so they would've had to switch two 14-seeds around.

What they did to me only moved one team, it just moved one team three seed lines. There are a thousand ways they could've moved two teams zero to one seed line each, but all would've involved moving multiple teams. I'm sure it makes the algorithm more complicated, even though it makes way more sense. 
2/27/2013 6:23 PM
So this was all done to avoid a potential Sweet 16 matchup between conference mates? Seems kind of ridiculous (especially that the engine cares about making sure the 10 and 14 seed in a region aren't from the same conference) but I appreciate you guys explaining it. I'll quit complaining and get back to drinking the pain away.
2/27/2013 8:25 PM
The projection report isn't the be all - end all when it comes to seeding, it's just a guide.
2/27/2013 8:35 PM
Posted by colonels19 on 2/27/2013 8:25:00 PM (view original):
The projection report isn't the be all - end all when it comes to seeding, it's just a guide.
um, well i cant say you are 100% wrong... because factors like automatic bids and conference interaction can shuffle seeding.

but as far as it comes to the s-curve, the projection report IS the be all and end all, for teams who get bids (and is the be all and end all for determining who gets at large bids)
2/27/2013 8:47 PM
Posted by colonels19 on 2/27/2013 8:25:00 PM (view original):
The projection report isn't the be all - end all when it comes to seeding, it's just a guide.
Well...you're wrong, it's pretty much they exact formula they use to determine seeding.  
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All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Lost to an at-large 16 seed last night

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