3/19/2013 11:59 AM
you are d3, are these d2 recruits? If they are then you'd definitely have to pull them down. Do you believe the players in question to recruitable at your level? I usually don't back off again until the recruit says leave me the "f" alone... or just doesn't respond to my calls. If any of the players tell you they won't be wearing your colors ... move on. If you apply a scholarship and get turned down, definitely move on. I know that one may be a bit expensive, but the messages that are unclear may be worth a scholly offer... unless someone else has specifics on these messages who cares to share. Again screw the coach unless he's international, i try until the kid gives me a no shot message. But that's just me.
3/19/2013 12:20 PM
I think they are recruitable based on my prestige (B) and the level of recruits I've landed before, both this year and in previous.  I've offered scholarships to see if any reject them, since if they openly reject the sch. I can assume I have no chance.  If not, I'll just throw HV at them until they sign.
3/19/2013 1:03 PM
I've always taken the "...going to take a miracle to convince this kid to play for us. Do you believe in miracles coach?"  and "Martin Luther is out of their league" as not recruitable. Will be interesting to see if any accept home visits.

3/19/2013 1:23 PM
yeah, i was pretty sure that message meant you have no shot at all. but with TWO posters saying they've signed those guys, it might be worth another look. especially because so many of the "constants" we'd come to know in recruiting have been proven to be no longer constants in this new engine (seble rewrite circa 2.5 years ago). now, guys showing up in your division search might not even be open to effort (rarely, but still), the "if the 150SG will talk to me and 149SG wont, then 151+ will and 148- wont" thing is no longer an absolute, its just more likely. d3 schools are signing d1 players (which i thought was impossible before the new engine but not sure).

so, who knows, maybe this got changed. im 99% sure this was a 100% no 4 years ago. but today, who can say anything for sure, in recruiting? 

3/19/2013 2:04 PM
3 scholarship offers, 3 rejections....they still aren't considering anyone. Guess they plan on going to community college instead of competing for the CCIW championship at Martin Luther
3/19/2013 2:06 PM
I have signed guys who were d3 on my list after the miracle message also.......I believe it was just with hv's and a scholly...
3/19/2013 2:08 PM

Yeah that's a no. It's weird you didn't get a flat out no from the actual recruit. Someone posted in the forums some months ago that you should judge by the kid's response as a sure fire no... I've followed that info ever since I read that. I wish I could remember who said it and what post it was in so I could refer you to it. I do remember it was some debate about what was more valuable, coach calls or recruit calls. Not sure if anyone else remembers this topic.

3/19/2013 2:09 PM
Posted by jkumpulanian on 3/19/2013 2:04:00 PM (view original):
3 scholarship offers, 3 rejections....they still aren't considering anyone. Guess they plan on going to community college instead of competing for the CCIW championship at Martin Luther
that is what id expect - that message has, for many years, been "known" in the community as an absolute NO.

the real question is, in this day and age (the new engine era, post seble rewriting the engine), can a player who gives you an absolute NO sometimes be recruited? i would think that is much more likely, than this message changing in meaning. with players in your division sometimes not even willing to talk to you, there is clearly something screwy going on with respect to who you can talk to. so i could definitely buy that absolute NOs are no longer absolute. however, when pressed about the issue of guys in your divisional search rejecting you, seble acknowledged the issue, but said the phone call is always right. so i guess id like to hear of more coaches overcoming an absolute NO message, because so many messages are similar and its easy to get them confused. but its probably worth poking around a bit with excess cash, to see if absolute nos are really absolute anymore.
3/19/2013 2:30 PM
the "not in your league" comment I would think is the definite no, but the "do you believe in miracles" comment I know I've signed players with that message. Maybe they were all pulldowns as I pulldown a lot so I can't really say but I know I've signed players with the "do you believe in miracles" comment.
3/19/2013 7:58 PM
Posted by rednation58 on 3/19/2013 2:30:00 PM (view original):
the "not in your league" comment I would think is the definite no, but the "do you believe in miracles" comment I know I've signed players with that message. Maybe they were all pulldowns as I pulldown a lot so I can't really say but I know I've signed players with the "do you believe in miracles" comment.
the thing is, phone calls are supposed to be definitive. a phone call is supposed to reflect, you can recruit me now, later, or never - and theres supposed to be no ifs ands or buts. for years, there were no exceptions to that rule, and i cant think of anyone saying different (until today) in the new engine, either, at least with initial phone calls.

now dont get me wrong - im not saying you or the other guy are mistaken. its always possible with so few examples, but i always take the approach of, if someone has a different experience than you, try to understand why, not assume they are wrong (it got me REALLY far when i was really into things, to do so). i just am interpreting these data points a little differently. i dont think there is suddenly a new class of phone call response - a "maybe" response, or that this message is somehow different than the other NO messages. i would be much more inclined to believe there is a bug causing NO responses to be given inappropriately - there was even a thread just a thread today or yesterday, where a guy got a NO after a pulled scholarship and was told he could still recruit the guy (and that wasnt the first time, although the previous time, im not sure CS said the guy could still be recruiting). so what im saying is, if people are going to look to recruit guys after a NO, questioning the validity of the NO, i would absolutely look at all NOs, not just this one - and i would definitely still consider this message a NO. i could be wrong, and there could just be a bug with this message - but id be really surprised, as a programmer and as a long time player, if that was the case. much more likely there is some issue affecting these messages, its really of the vein of problems weve seen, with guys in your division not being recruitable and such, it seems to me.
3/20/2013 8:18 AM
I just went back and looked at the miracle message recruit, and he ended up dropping down on his own.  I put no more effort in him until the dropdown, then was I able to sign him pretty cheaply.
3/20/2013 9:04 AM
I tried to go back and find someone I signed with that message but the messages already deleted. Glad you found something because I was starting to think I was crazy.
3/20/2013 7:33 PM

With the weirdness of some of the messages we get here, I had thought that, "do you believe in miracles, coach?" was some code for..."it's going to take a HELL of a lot of effort to sway this kid."

To say I may overthink this game a bit is an understatement, but the confusion on this thread does give me some hope that i'm not the only one who tries to interpret these things so intensely.     

3/20/2013 10:43 PM
Frankly this thread is a good reason to start using coach calls in place of phone calls to the player.  I know there was a debate about that at some point, but there doesn't seem to be the same ambiguity with the coach responses.
3/20/2013 11:52 PM
If I think the player will call me a backup, I'll call the coach to get the O/D.  If I think I'm stretching too far, I'll call the kid and maybe get lucky and save $10 if he rejects the call.
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