4/2/2013 3:26 PM
Posted by Iguana1 on 4/1/2013 6:38:00 PM (view original):
it would almost appear to be easier if D1 consisted of 25 conferences with 14 teams each.  350 teams.
although with the conferences continual changing it would be outdated in a season or two. 

Add Missouri and A&M to the SEC which puts them at 14.
Add Colorado and Utah to Pac 10 which gives them 14.   Maybe even replace Fresno and Hawaii with BYU and Gonzaga.
Nebraska, Maryland and Rutgers to Big Ten, minus Notre Dame leaves them at 14.  
The new ACC without Maryland  adds Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville for 14.
The two Big Easts are ugly with 22(?) teams.   The New Big East 10 plus add Notre Dame, UConn, maybe Cincinnati or a South Florida.
Big 12 adds West Virginia, TCU and maybe teams like Memphis and Cincinnati from the old BigEast.   I guess you could add some other old Big East teams, or the old Southwest Conferences teams like Houston, SMU plus Tulsa/Wichita State for the final spots. 
I think the Atlantic 10 currently has 13?  Sorry Temple but you're back with this group.

Then the other conferences could be somewhat combined.  Maybe the Mountain West with the top of the West Coast.  A few leftovers from there could trickle down to join the BigWest and western WAC teams. 
Horizon and Summit?  Get to know each other boys.
how would people feel about addressing this issue by NOT having all the teams in the same world? it seems pretty well accepted that a full world is ideal in one sense, but doesnt really work, because you cant have it so hard to make the NT or PIT. a lot of decent human coaches would have almost 0 chance of making the NT, well, ever (ok not exactly but you get the idea).

what i figured would make sense would be to include like, the big 6 confs, and half of the mid majors, so that all team were *somewhere* in case someone really wanted said team. this would result in approx 150-175 teams in a division, which to me, is a great figure. that world could be damn near full, with still a high enough % of teams making the post season and NT (based on the fact that HD d1 worlds supported about 150-175 coaches before recruit gen change that dropped population by a third). also, there should be no ghost town conferences, everyone would get to enjoy nearly full groups, which i can only view as a good thing.
4/2/2013 3:27 PM
Posted by theeyetest on 4/2/2013 3:19:00 PM (view original):
Look, I'm married with three kids. I have time to play this game or follow real basketball. I have made my choice. Everybody, please do not complicate my fake world with your alleged realities.
i like it :)
4/2/2013 4:26 PM (edited)
Posted by graff on 3/27/2013 10:08:00 AM (view original):
Also, if each teams schedule was a function of the # of teams in the conference (i.e. if z conference members then, you play x conference games, y non-conference games and this is how the conference tourney seedings are paired up) then conference realignment becomes REALLY easy. You just change the name of the conference variable as teams change conferences, have it count the # of teams with that variable and then use the created function above. Once it's set up it's literally as easy as changing ONE field value.

So, what is it that I'm missing about forcing us into these 12 team leagues, because until we can get away from that there will always be wacky unrealistic conferences (and even teams in the entirely wrong division).
The whole idea isnt to make realistic conferences.  In fact, you can play the game just fine as the conferences are.

Who is in what conference doesnt make a lick of difference.  it's a game, not real life.
4/2/2013 4:45 PM
I agree with paland. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, would never even think about it until it gets occasionally discussed here.

Bottom line: I see little benefit to "fixing" it, and certainly it would create more problems than it would solve.
4/3/2013 12:53 AM
I doubt he'll pop in here again, but I would love to know what he considers the best college basketball game of all time, whatever console, whatever edition, etc.  I played the CBB game at sportsim.com? a few years back, and it was awful...it was a poor attempt at a copycat of this game and I'm not even sure if it still exists.  My favorite console cbb game is NCAAB 2K5 with Josh Childress on the cover, but with that said, I've never liked any of the recruiting setups in any other college basketball game I played until I played HD.

To get back on topic, like many of you mentioned, this is only possible/probable if they ever create a new world...there's no benefit at all to rearranging the current format/setup.

4/3/2013 8:26 PM
I think it would be cool to name colleges after World of Warcraft, or Lord of the Rings locations.  My schools would be "Gandalf College of Magic" or "Rogue School of Thievery and other Chicanery ".
4/3/2013 8:37 PM
Posted by paland on 4/3/2013 8:26:00 PM (view original):
I think it would be cool to name colleges after World of Warcraft, or Lord of the Rings locations.  My schools would be "Gandalf College of Magic" or "Rogue School of Thievery and other Chicanery ".
"Rogue School of Thievery and other Chicanery" is actually what zags' ECU squad is called in Rupp, only there are a couple pirate expletives thrown in for good measure.
4/4/2013 12:09 AM
C'mon guys, easy...we already know how effed up the current configuration is, we wouldn't want to see any further HD smog with your inventive, "fake" colleges...uhhh they don't exist...
4/4/2013 1:23 AM (edited)
Posted by ryrun on 4/2/2013 10:07:00 AM (view original):
I actually did an entire study on the average number of minutes played by real life NCAA starters vs. the amount of minutes played by WiS starters to show people, statistically, exactly how WiS is screwed up in this area, but posting it is pointless. Many seem to much rather enjoy the bliss of their ignorance or force themselves to suspend all concepts of reality and mold and shape themselves into this distorted WiS world until they can actually enjoy it.
Please, post the results of your "study". We have some pretty savvy mathematician types that cruise the board that I'm sure would love to check it out.  I'm guessing the reasoning behind not posting the results lies more with a faulty study rather than feeling it would be pointless.  If you have valid data from a legit study that exposes an actual flaw in the game, it will be treated fairly.  I'm doubtful of the legitimacy though.

Why else would you draw attention to the fact that you have taken the time to do something but then not go through sharing the results (which I'm sure was the entire point of doing the study)?

p.s. I rewrote the entire HD engine to realign the conferences and fix all the outstanding bugs.  But sharing it is pointless.
*sighs* It's pointless because I already know the responses I'll get. Things like "Who is in what conference doesn't make a lick of difference.  It's a game, not real life." and "It doesn't bother me in the slightest, would never even think about it until it gets occasionally discussed here." i.e. we don't CARE if it's not realistic so pointing out that it's not realistic matters not!

I fully expect that everyone will reject the study "just because" no matter what it says but ask and ye shall receive.

*note I attached the documents as images, shown in the following links.

i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg567/graffz06/MPG_Study_page1-2_zps97270ac9.jpg

i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg567/graffz06/MPG_Study_page2-2_zps0ffc1208.jpg

The following chart I sorted the entire sample of players (not just starters) by MPG and graphed them. You can obviously see how WiS team players 1-6 minutes are too low (consistent with the top 5 starter study). The 7th best players minutes are just about right, but then to make up for the top player minute short-comings, WiS players 8-11 are playing too many minutes. So the "good" players are generally forced to rest in lieu of "worse" players. 

i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg567/graffz06/MPG_Study_Chart_zpsc604b8b3.jpg

Now, please feel free to "doubt the legitimacy" of my study. Lord knows my Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering means I have no idea how to do a basic statistical analysis.
4/4/2013 2:27 AM
Those R^2 values are high, but I don't know it your model does a good job explaining the natural variation.

Before you guys get your panties in a bunch, that was a joke...because you can make statistics say whatever you want. Which is true, but this looks like slid work, graff
4/4/2013 4:54 AM
I don't doubt the legitimacy of what you've examined, but I also don't really have a problem with the differences. To me the minutes are close enough to RL and I am ok with the sacrifices to realism that have been made for playability reasons as I described in a previous post. I disagree with your thesis, not your method. From looking at the graph you created I feel there is enough similarity between the two (RL and HD) that I don't think that I have to "force [myself] to suspend all concepts of reality and mold and shape themselves into this distorted WiS world", but I guess if that's the way you feel you are entitled to that opinion. I'm extrapolating a bit here, but I doubt that HD will ever match the degree of realism you seem to desire in order to enjoy the game, so I guess I'd recommend some other activity for you since I don't think you'll ever enjoy this one.
4/4/2013 9:18 AM
I disagree with your thesis, not your method.
For me, this.  I value gameplay over realism in this case.  The distribution of teams among conferences is an aspect of this game that works well and changing it won't improve gameplay.
4/4/2013 10:17 AM
Gameplay over realism, absolutely.

Blind realism is bad for the game.
4/4/2013 1:30 PM
Graff, you came into the game close minded. You've never completed more than 1 season at any school. You are entitled to your opinion and if you don't like the game, its understandable and noone is forcing you to play it. You can't get into a game simply because its not realistic because teams are not in their correct conferences.

The most important point made here is that the majority of this games fanbase would leave this game (guys who have been playing for years) if their team just suddenly got moved after they've built a program and relationships with those in their conferences just so guys like you who MIGHT play 3 seasons until you get bored can see real conferences. You say offer them an opportunity to go to another program, but most have already spent the time to BUILD THEIR PROGRAM (something you obviously don't understand in 1 season). Now you're telling them to basically start over. which means the 3- 4 seasons of money they spent to build that program in the first place has now gone to waste. The time they've spent building that prgram has gone to waste.

Explain how your friend who compares this to D&D would feel any different about the game if the conferences were up to date? We would still be using the same RNG. It would still be unrealistic because a coach can build his team to be better than the Duke's and Kentucky's if he's a good enough coach. The benefit provided by your cosmetic change does not make up for the negatives it has the potential to cause. They don't advertise enough to bring in new members and now you will lose the loyalty of those who are still here. The move would have the potential to close the site down altogether.
4/4/2013 4:00 PM (edited)
Graff, I may not have a phd, but I do like numbers. They can represent nearly anything you would like. In this case they support your theory that starters are not capable of playing as much time as real life players. I don't think this is true. What it tells me (with my limited experience in HD) is that coaches in HD have stronger benches than RL teams and, for matters of strategy, they choose to not play their starters more minutes per game.

There are a lot of SimAi teams in every world which have the majority of the sub par players. I think if there was a more even distribution of talent across the entire division you would see more teams playing their starters on getting tired or even tired. If this was the case the amount of time starters play would undoubtably increase, probably to the point that would be realistic to you. However, bench players in HD are often better than in RL

Playing starters fewer minutes than their real life counterparts is also a strategy in HD. Some coaches even start freshmen over very solid seniors in some of their less important or challenging games. It is a development tool in HD. The more starts/minutes a player has during the season the more that player will improve.

I coach Worcester St. in Crum. Because I am sometimes not the most efficient recruiter I only have 9 scholarship players. My three Walk-ons don't play, ever. I play man defense which will tire a player, albeit not as quickly as press but faster than a zone. My record is something like 21-6 and unless something terrible happens I will be in the NT( I'm around 44 on the projection report). I lack rebounding, but I have a very solid team. I play slowdown every game and my starters average 28.78* mpg with two players averaging 30 mpg.

There is no doubt that the simulation is set up so that starters can play comparable minutes to RL starters. I think your qualm may be with the HD coaching community and not with the HD engine.

*edit:  originally had the wrong mpg

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