6/30/2013 7:34 AM
HOW WAS YER DAY, BEAVE?

JUST SWELL,POP

MR CLEAVER WAS A DRUNKEN WIFE-BEATER
6/30/2013 7:38 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 6/30/2013 1:40:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 6/30/2013 1:11:00 AM (view original):
How so?
You don't think a family is better off if the parents are married?
I think children are better off raised by a mother/father than by a SS couple.
6/30/2013 7:40 AM
Posted by dahsdebater on 6/30/2013 6:27:00 AM (view original):
It also makes me extremely uncomfortable when other conservatives tell me how bad it is for gay couples to adopt children.  I think they've clearly either A) never seen or B) totally ignored statistics on how well the lives of children raised by same-sex couples are likely to turn out relative to foster children.
Apples and oranges, if you're comparing adopted children to foster children.

Let me ask you . . . if a child is to be adopted, do you think there is any potential difference between them being adopted by a traditional mother/father couple, or by a SS couple?
6/30/2013 7:54 AM
Posted by dahsdebater on 6/30/2013 6:25:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 6/29/2013 9:37:00 PM (view original):
Does it seem odd to you that some people might have such a bizarre idea of "family" (mom, dad, kids)?  Does it make you feel uncomfortable?
It does make me uncomfortable that people have that narrow a worldview, yes.
It makes me uncomfortable that in a society where we are expected/demanded to be so open and accepting to those who are "different", the same standard does not hold to those who have different opinions from the PC thought police.
6/30/2013 8:57 AM
Posted by dahsdebater on 6/30/2013 6:27:00 AM (view original):
It also makes me extremely uncomfortable when other conservatives tell me how bad it is for gay couples to adopt children.  I think they've clearly either A) never seen or B) totally ignored statistics on how well the lives of children raised by same-sex couples are likely to turn out relative to foster children.
How long have gay couples been allowed to adopt?  10-15 years?

Do we have any idea how those children turned out?   They could be the most ****** up people on earth by adulthood.
6/30/2013 9:16 AM
OR NOT
6/30/2013 10:49 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 6/30/2013 7:38:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/30/2013 1:40:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 6/30/2013 1:11:00 AM (view original):
How so?
You don't think a family is better off if the parents are married?
I think children are better off raised by a mother/father than by a SS couple.
Irrelevant to the marriage question. Gay couples, whether they're allowed to marry or not, will raise children. Isn't it better that the parents are married?
6/30/2013 12:26 PM
It's better that the parents of children are not gay.
6/30/2013 12:38 PM
Since once again, we seem to be arguing two different points past each other, let me offer this:

In terms of "what's best for the children", all else being equal, I would suggest (in priority order):

1)  Married, opposite sex parents
2)  Unmarried, opposite sex parents
3)  Married, same sex parents
4)  Unmarried, same sex parents

I'd also say that there is a much,much bigger gap between 2 and 3 than between 1/2 or 3/4.
6/30/2013 12:44 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 6/30/2013 12:38:00 PM (view original):
Since once again, we seem to be arguing two different points past each other, let me offer this:

In terms of "what's best for the children", all else being equal, I would suggest (in priority order):

1)  Married, opposite sex parents
2)  Unmarried, opposite sex parents
3)  Married, same sex parents
4)  Unmarried, same sex parents

I'd also say that there is a much,much bigger gap between 2 and 3 than between 1/2 or 3/4.
Ok, but gay parents do raise children (not always through adoption, donors and surrogacy are also used). And you admit that families are better off if the parents are married.
6/30/2013 1:07 PM
OK.  I guess it's also better to die unexpectedly but peacefully in your sleep than to burn to death fully awake and aware in a house fire.  That still doesn't make it a desirable event.
6/30/2013 1:09 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 6/30/2013 12:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 6/30/2013 12:38:00 PM (view original):
Since once again, we seem to be arguing two different points past each other, let me offer this:

In terms of "what's best for the children", all else being equal, I would suggest (in priority order):

1)  Married, opposite sex parents
2)  Unmarried, opposite sex parents
3)  Married, same sex parents
4)  Unmarried, same sex parents

I'd also say that there is a much,much bigger gap between 2 and 3 than between 1/2 or 3/4.
Ok, but gay parents do raise children (not always through adoption, donors and surrogacy are also used). And you admit that families are better off if the parents are married.
Not necessarily. 
6/30/2013 1:38 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 6/30/2013 1:07:00 PM (view original):
OK.  I guess it's also better to die unexpectedly but peacefully in your sleep than to burn to death fully awake and aware in a house fire.  That still doesn't make it a desirable event.
Ok, but this isn't death. This is the choice between allowing families to be lead by either married or unmarried parents.
6/30/2013 2:22 PM
My point is: just because "A" is better than "B", that doesn't necessarily make "A" a good or desirable thing.
6/30/2013 2:25 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 6/30/2013 7:40:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 6/30/2013 6:27:00 AM (view original):
It also makes me extremely uncomfortable when other conservatives tell me how bad it is for gay couples to adopt children.  I think they've clearly either A) never seen or B) totally ignored statistics on how well the lives of children raised by same-sex couples are likely to turn out relative to foster children.
Apples and oranges, if you're comparing adopted children to foster children.

Let me ask you . . . if a child is to be adopted, do you think there is any potential difference between them being adopted by a traditional mother/father couple, or by a SS couple?
It's not apples and oranges.  There are already many, many children going into the foster system.  It's not like children not adopted by same-sex couples are inevitably going to be adopted by an opposite-sex couple.  Maybe some of the individual children might be, but then someone else won't.  Basically, any child not adopted by a same-sex couple means some child is going to fall into the foster system.  And I believe that an opposite-sex couple makes a slightly better home environment than a same-sex couple.  But the same-sex couple is still significantly better than a single parent, which are extremely common now, and almost indefinably better than the foster care system.
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