6/16/2013 8:38 PM
I don't know what oriole has been up to, but I like it! Has anyone taken a close look at the latest games? I coach Pitt St. in Argento (Shotgun/90% Pass) and Gannon in Bava (I-Formation/65%-70% Run). We played game 1 of both seasons today and I have to tell you,
both games were great!
My Pitt St team was quite a bit more talented than Indy, but Indy had a very good defensive game plan in place. Talent finally wore their "D" down as my QB passed for 459 yards and 6 TD's (with 44 pass attempts), but I have to admit Indy put up a fight. Their defense picked off 1 pass and knocked down 5 more! On defense my 3-4 kept the pressure on the entire game, finally wearing the Indy OL down and recording 8 sacks, 5 by blitzing LB'ers. Indys top RB did rush for 125 yards, but got most of them when my "D" was expecting the pass and took advantage of holes made by my blitzing LB'ers. The final score was 42-20, and every play in the game MADE SENSE!!!!!!!
The Gannon game was a different story. The Newberry offense was led by a talented DII RB (ATH:51  Speed:60  STR:67  ELUS:65) running behind an avg. OL. My defense bent but didn't quite break as they gave up 180 yards rushing and 2 TD's. On offense Gannon had their own powerful running game, but was also able to mix in a strong passing attack, which made the difference. Gannon rushed for 221 yards and 1 TD and passed for another 223 yards...and 4 TD's! The big playmaker in the game was Gannon TE Kyle Gomez, a converted WR. Gomez simply couldn't be covered by the Newberry LB's and safeties, especially considering they were forced to play the run much of the game. The Gannon QB continually went deep to his TE out of the I-formation on 2nd/3rd and short. In the end Gomez caught 6 passes for a total of 147 yards and 3 TD's! The Gannon defense kept the pressure on all game (aggressive 3-4) and registered 6 sacks, 4 by blitzing LB'ers!
Bottom line...Both games made sense, were fun to play and were head and shoulders above anything I've seen yet out of 3.0. Congrats to oriole and anyone else involved!!!
6/16/2013 11:45 PM
Same here, my "all pass" shotgun isn't nearly effective as it was a couple days ago. Kudos to the changes
6/17/2013 2:26 AM
I don't notice any difference.
6/17/2013 4:57 AM
Well, so far so good in game 2! Once again the games are playing as close to perfect as...well...real football! If this continues through the 2nd half and maybe one more game could it be time to insert penalties, interception returns, etc.? Is it possible we're almost there???!!!
6/17/2013 11:22 AM
I don't notice any differences either, triple covered players still in multiple parts of the field and receivers catching the ball with 3 players around them. DL with heavy pressure and then nothing else happens with them. I don't think it's different.
6/17/2013 1:16 PM
Thanks guys. I've been messing with the numbers a bit. I have a few more things that I'm working on right now to make it easier to adjust passing numbers. Things are going to start settling in to the right numbers, but as you see anomalies let me know.

This week I'm adding some adjustments to add fatigue based on the distance thrown, and also use the fatigue to sway the completion percentages too. I'm also adjusting the rate of interceptions slightly to be more in line with deep pass interception rates, and fixing the number of touchdowns on deep passes. Right now, the majority of the time you complete a deep pass regardless of field position you are likely to avoid tackles and score. I'm trying to add tackle information based on the quality of the pass and the location of the throw.

 
6/17/2013 1:48 PM
Posted by oriole_fan on 6/17/2013 1:16:00 PM (view original):
Thanks guys. I've been messing with the numbers a bit. I have a few more things that I'm working on right now to make it easier to adjust passing numbers. Things are going to start settling in to the right numbers, but as you see anomalies let me know.

This week I'm adding some adjustments to add fatigue based on the distance thrown, and also use the fatigue to sway the completion percentages too. I'm also adjusting the rate of interceptions slightly to be more in line with deep pass interception rates, and fixing the number of touchdowns on deep passes. Right now, the majority of the time you complete a deep pass regardless of field position you are likely to avoid tackles and score. I'm trying to add tackle information based on the quality of the pass and the location of the throw.

 
I think it is more likely that you avoid tackles on deep passes because there are fewer defenders, especially if the safeties are not long.  You are already making adjustments, let's see how those work out before you add another layer.  I don't think it's wise to have a special set of rules for only one specific type of play.

I like the fatigue idea, but right now fatigue is broken everywhere.  Again, I think it's unwise to have a special set of rules for only one specific type of play.  Why not try to make fatigue matter for every play?  Right now, there's no noticeable dropoff if a player is at 70% vs 95%.

IMO, patchwork fixes are what jconte did and it made future adjustments almost impossible because you had so many exceptions and unintended linkages.  I would get the general mechanics of the engine right before resorting to specified adjustments.
6/17/2013 2:49 PM
I agree with slid64er...put on the brakes a bit. This calls for a gentle pace, slow and steady wins the race here. It would be a huge misstep to rush the beta due to a 2 or 3 game sample, even a 1 season sample is too little in my opinion. Doesn't the programming team have this engine running 24/7 on a test server? I mean, that's how you do it. Make your tweaks there...see if they're effective, then push to beta...let the beta users give the feedback. If the feedback stinks, go back to the drawing board.

I will say this bluntly and I don't mean any disrespect to the fellas putting in the work on the project. I know there are countless hours of programming. However, this entire thing lacks direction and focus and I don't necessarily think it's worthy of its name. If version 3.0 is anything remotely close to what I am "testing" right now, this is one users credit card that will no longer be on file. If it were my business and I were calling the shots I would have already scrapped this weeks ago and brought in a set of fresh ideas.
6/17/2013 4:37 PM
I'm on the bandwagon with slider and coachtex. Don't be adding on the second story until the foundation is solid. We need to back up to make sure the player match-ups are correct, then start the tweaks on special situations.
6/17/2013 6:09 PM
+1 to the 3 above, so, +3 I guess...  Please don't just arbitrarily up interception rates on deep passes.  That's one of the things that drove me away from the game in the first place.  EVERYTIME my qb threw deep, even though I was set at very conservative, he was picked.  Okay, not everytime, but certainly a very solid 70% of the time.  If you're going to tweak around the deep ball passing success, limit the completion rate, but for crying out loud, don't up the INT rate.  Actually, I think interceptions are right about where they should be.  I don't run an all-pass offense, but my qb threw 31 passes today with 1 INT... the opposition threw 27 passes with 1 INT... that sounds about right to me.  I have no problem if my QB only completes 30% of his deep passes...  that's about right...  but to get picked on 7 out of every 10 is NOT realistic, and if my QB gets picked on 70% of his deep throws, I won't be buying into this game.
6/18/2013 7:20 AM
From what I've seen by testing some games this season, the pass completion percentage is still off. If you test 20 games against the same 2 teams, you shouldn't get a 20-30% variance no matter what the teams ratings are.  The ratings don't seem to matter either. I tested 20 games against a SIM where I was an average +6 points higher across the board. You would think I would destroy them. I even lost a couple and the largest margin of victory was 21. I think to fix this the defensive side needs to be addressed. It doesn't seem to matter what I do on defense. If I blitz or not or even if I call the right defense. The passes still get completed and there are still long runs. Even if I have an advantage.where my defensive line is stronger than their offensive line. I know weaker teams will make big plays from time to time, but it seems to happen to often now.
6/18/2013 8:36 AM
Posted by katzphang88 on 6/17/2013 4:37:00 PM (view original):
I'm on the bandwagon with slider and coachtex. Don't be adding on the second story until the foundation is solid. We need to back up to make sure the player match-ups are correct, then start the tweaks on special situations.
Fully agree on getting the foundation right. I've built a number of houses. Before the bricks and cement and wood go on, the foundation needs to be solid, square and without defect.

I know nothing about programming but it appears that the plumb line needs to be brought back out to get the base correct.

It seems as though the developers are just like dogs chasing their tails right now.

6/18/2013 8:51 AM
I have a 42 technique quarterback torching me for 77% at halftime.  This is d2.  I have a 78 technique quarterback in d3 at Westminster passing for only 60%.(2.0)  Anybody who thinks this game is even close to being finished is off his rocker!!!  Quarterback ratings in Beta mean NOTHING!!!
6/18/2013 9:00 AM
johnnyluv151, there are a LOT more to QB's than their tech, even in 2.0 but much more in 3.0. What are their other ratings? Are they throwing against run or pass defenses? Etc., etc.....
6/18/2013 9:10 AM
I just ran 10 test games against Concord (DII in Argento). They are one of the "All Pass Deep" teams and have been putting up 80+ points and 800+ yards against other teams. The first 3 games they scored in the 50's  twice and 60+ one time, against a pretty balanced defense but leaning toward the pass. As I adjusted my defense there scoring came down, and once I got it right, over the last 3-4 games, they were in the 20's, and I was smoking them, winning by huge margins because of all of the sacks and int.'s that set up scores for my team (Pitt St.). Exactly what I would have expected!
That said, I agree that ratings for defensive players could mean a little more than they do now, or maybe mean the same but the ratings need to be a little higher. I honestly haven't compared the def. ratings to the off. ratings. Has anyone done this?

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