All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Promised minutes question
7/11/2013 2:41 PM

Hey - I have a guy that I promised 15 minutes to, but he's currently getting 10.  I got an email from him bemoaning this fact, and his WE dropped by 4.

I can live with that for sure - question is, if for the rest of the season, he stays around 10 mpg, will this be the only drop in WE that I see?  or will there be other emails and drops?
7/11/2013 2:51 PM
It could drop more; it's hard to say.  He could also transfer after the season is completed.
7/11/2013 3:06 PM
In my experience his WE not only can drop more but WILL drop more unless you make changes. As for transferring, I know it happens but am told it's not a frequent thing.

Still, if you want to use him in the future, maybe you should give the player something he wants. After all, I'm told you can't expect any player (real or HD) to actually do what's best for the good of a team if it doesn't also benefit them personally.
7/11/2013 6:25 PM
the general rule is that he needs to play 80% of the promissed.  So he needs to AVERAGE 12 minutes or more. 
If you dont stand a chance at any tourney, then go ahead and play him for 30 minutes for one or three games to get him caught up.
7/11/2013 6:39 PM
Posted by bistiza on 7/11/2013 3:06:00 PM (view original):
In my experience his WE not only can drop more but WILL drop more unless you make changes. As for transferring, I know it happens but am told it's not a frequent thing.

Still, if you want to use him in the future, maybe you should give the player something he wants. After all, I'm told you can't expect any player (real or HD) to actually do what's best for the good of a team if it doesn't also benefit them personally.
Big difference in this game between what the player "wants" and what the player was "promised".  I'm sure you just overlooked that not-so-subtle difference.
7/11/2013 8:41 PM
I had a kid transfer a season or two back (first time in 70+ seasons)...promised 15, played him 12.6 I think it was. So, yes, he can split the program at rollover and, no, the 80 percent mark is not a magical barrier that ensures your safety.

And, if you keep him around 10, chances are in 3-4 games you'll see another WE drop.

7/11/2013 10:55 PM
80% is where I start out, assuming I'd rather play him less than I promised.  Some players will definitely make you push it up to 90%, but 80% works for probably the majority.  I don't think I've ever had a complaint above 90%.

Recently had a guy complain at 22.3mpg on a 25 min promise.  89.2% wasn't good enough apparently.
7/12/2013 12:39 AM
Posted by killbatman on 7/11/2013 10:55:00 PM (view original):
80% is where I start out, assuming I'd rather play him less than I promised.  Some players will definitely make you push it up to 90%, but 80% works for probably the majority.  I don't think I've ever had a complaint above 90%.

Recently had a guy complain at 22.3mpg on a 25 min promise.  89.2% wasn't good enough apparently.
Minutes are a different logic than starts. You need to look at the number of games the player achieved the promised minutes, rather than his average. If the player is consistently in the 20-24 minute range, with an average of 22.3, he won't be happy.
7/12/2013 4:47 AM
Posted by paynebrow on 7/12/2013 12:39:00 AM (view original):
Posted by killbatman on 7/11/2013 10:55:00 PM (view original):
80% is where I start out, assuming I'd rather play him less than I promised.  Some players will definitely make you push it up to 90%, but 80% works for probably the majority.  I don't think I've ever had a complaint above 90%.

Recently had a guy complain at 22.3mpg on a 25 min promise.  89.2% wasn't good enough apparently.
Minutes are a different logic than starts. You need to look at the number of games the player achieved the promised minutes, rather than his average. If the player is consistently in the 20-24 minute range, with an average of 22.3, he won't be happy.
this was once true, but has been corrected according to CS.

4/27/2013 10:50 AM dacj501
On 4/19, after that day's games had run, my sophomore PG Christopher Blackshear sent me a message complaining that he was only getting 2 mpg playing time. Here is the message:

From: Christopher Blackshear
To: Coach dacj501
Subject: Court Time?

Sent: 04/19/2013 2:46AM

I'm guessing it's not easy being a coach with everyone asking you for everything, but I'm only seeing about 2 minutes of court time now. I think it should be more like 5 or 6 minutes more a game - I'm assuming that's going to change soon?

He claims 2 mpg, asks to play 7 or 8 mpg. So I switched to target minutes for a game and even played him all 40 minutes of a game, and over our next 7 games he has played a total of 77 minutes for an average of 11 mpg. His current overall cumulative season mpg are up to 7.6. And yet today I got the following message:

From: Christopher Blackshear
To: Coach dacj501
Subject: Follow up on my previous note about my minutes

Sent: 04/27/2013 2:53AM

Coach, what do I have to do to get my minutes? I mean, I'm not asking for much, just give them to me. I'm thinking hard about transferring, and you're not giving much other choice.

So, he asked for 7 or 8, and since the time of his asking has gotten 11. His overall average is 7.6. I can't do much better than that to meet his demands. Shouldn't this be enough to placate him?

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/GameLog.aspx?tid=7835&pid=2386149
4/27/2013 12:12 PM Customer Support
Thanks for the note. I'm sure that he appreciated getting 40 minutes in the game on the 4/20 but that is not realistic. What he is concerned with is the huge drop to just 3 minutes on the 4/26 after which he made his most recent complaint. You can see that he is one to complain so why not make sure that he consistently gets the 7 to 8 mins each and every game that he is asking for? Then he will stop being a thorn in your side. He is not interested in his average for the season but the 7 or 8 each and every game.
4/30/2013 12:42 AM dacj501
please forward this to seble for a review - I would like some confirmation regarding the issue of averages. I was also unaware that the collection of electrons that comprise this player had any actual feelings...
4/30/2013 2:09 PM Customer Support
Darryl,

The original response was not accurate. As you mention, it's the average minutes since the original message that matters. This actually exposed a bug. We discounted games where the player fouls out, so the 40 minute game was not being counted. I've changed it so that foul out games will be counted as long as they meet or exceed the amount that the player is expecting.

I've reverted the negative work ethic to your player and wiped out the history of him complaining, so you shouldn't have to worry about this situation in the future (unless he logs a new complaint).
4/30/2013 3:28 PM dacj501
thank you
7/12/2013 10:40 AM
Minutes are a different logic than starts. You need to look at the number of games the player achieved the promised minutes, rather than his average. If the player is consistently in the 20-24 minute range, with an average of 22.3, he won't be happy.?
this was once true, but has been corrected according to CS.
I'm not sure this was ever true.  Did CS or a dev chat say it was at some point?
7/12/2013 11:00 AM
I've always been told that the average is all that matters with minutes promises, so 0-20-0-20-0-20 would be equally as good as 10-10-10-10-10-10 for meeting a 10 mpg promise. Tried checking the knowledge base for an answer and couldn't find a heading that contained insight.
7/12/2013 1:40 PM
Posted by paland on 7/11/2013 6:25:00 PM (view original):
the general rule is that he needs to play 80% of the promissed.  So he needs to AVERAGE 12 minutes or more. 
If you dont stand a chance at any tourney, then go ahead and play him for 30 minutes for one or three games to get him caught up.
i'm familiar with the "general rule" but i just got a complaint from a player averaging 25 mpg who was promised 30. i always thought 80% was the rule - e.g., not an estimate. was i wrong? do i have to get this kid 30 mpg??? (and i know - cue the "well, if you're going to promise x mpg, be prepared to give them" - please spare me)
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7/12/2013 2:34 PM
Posted by bistiza on 7/12/2013 2:15:00 PM (view original):
Big difference in this game between what the player "wants" and what the player was "promised".  I'm sure you just overlooked that not-so-subtle difference.

One of the things players want is what they are promised. Still, sometimes promises don't work out, and if a player is going to whine like a baby when that happens, maybe he should be treated like one.

To that end, it would be nice if WIS added a "punish player for his insubordination" option to HD. Or maybe not. It would take something away from the negative of not fulfilling promises. Still, it would be more realistic than players just getting away with telling a coach how to run his team - particularly when no promises were made.
+1 for "punish the player for his insubordination"

Maybe less so for the guys who you actually promised things to..I can understand the guy wanting his 20 minutes or whatever that you promised.  But those random SO/JR/SR who complain about only getting 8mpg..yeah I want to tell them they're an ungrateful POS and they're welcome to play 0 mpg if they'd prefer.

7/12/2013 2:49 PM
You guys essentially have that option already.  Just keep running your team the way you want and the player can get as unhappy about that as he wants.  Maybe you get annoyed enough with him to cut him.  Maybe he gets annoyed enough to transfer.
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