All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Hall of Fame weekend
7/29/2013 12:41 PM
Who knew?
7/29/2013 12:46 PM
The families of the 3 dead guys who got in?
7/29/2013 1:14 PM
PETER H. ROSE
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7/29/2013 4:17 PM
My guess is we're going to get a lot more HOF weekends like this for the next 5-10 years.
7/29/2013 4:27 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/29/2013 4:17:00 PM (view original):
My guess is we're going to get a lot more HOF weekends like this for the next 5-10 years.
I agree and it's ******* retarded. 
7/29/2013 4:30 PM
As much as I hate to agree with you, I think we stand on the same side of the PED fence.

Nonetheless, with MLB making a huge deal over PED right now, it's kind of hard to fault the BBWAA for not voting in anyone with even a vague tie to PED.
7/29/2013 4:33 PM
I understand the argument against Bonds and Clemens. 

What bothers me more is people not voting for Piazza, Biggio, Bagwell.  It's bullshit.  Also, RAINES.
7/29/2013 5:28 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 7/29/2013 4:35:00 PM (view original):
I understand the argument against Bonds and Clemens. 

What bothers me more is people not voting for Piazza, Biggio, Bagwell.  It's bullshit.  Also, RAINES.
True. The BBWAA has their heads up their *****. For years their argument was, "we're the ones that actually watch the games, we see what isn't in the stat lines." And then a guy like Raines, who doesn't show as well in the traditional stats but was a great baserunner and defender (the things sportswriters should see), and they don't vote him in. And then sabermetrics become more popular and we see how awesome he really was on offense, too.

No excuse for the writers not to vote him in. I feel like the writers are voting for Morris and not Raines as a way to thumb their noses at more advanced statistical analysis.
7/29/2013 6:21 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 7/29/2013 4:35:00 PM (view original):
I understand the argument against Bonds and Clemens. 

What bothers me more is people not voting for Piazza, Biggio, Bagwell.  It's bullshit.  Also, RAINES.

Piazza and Bagwell were big hitters when big hitters were roiding.   In fact, Bagwell shrunk a lot when testing started. 

Biggio isn't really a HOFer.   Nor is Raines. 

7/29/2013 6:44 PM (edited)
Do you really believe that Biggio and Raines aren't HOF's?

Other than the 3,000 hits, Biggio has been slightly below average for a HOF 2nd baseman (Jaffe's JAWS has him at 51.3, the average HOF 2nd is 54.4). But, in my opinion, a slightly below average Hall of Famer should still be in the Hall of Fame.

Raines, on the other hand, has been better than the average Hall of Fame left fielder. He is considered the 8th best left fielder to ever play. Not electing him to the Hall is ridiculous. 

EDIT: Comparing Raines' JAWS score to RF, he would rank 13th, knocking Gwynn and Winfield (among others) down a spot.


7/29/2013 7:13 PM

We've already done 50 pages on Raines so I won't go thru that again. 

Biggio played a long time and compiled some nice numbers.  There's value in that.   I just never felt, at any point in time, that he was among the best of his peers when he played. 

7/29/2013 7:18 PM
You like WAR.   Biggio was 13th in WAR7 amongst this season's candidates.   13th.    Raines was 11th.    Know who was 9th?  KennyfuckingLofton.  Who, IRC, is someone I compared Raines to back in the day.   Kenny Lofton-HOFer.  Does that sound right?
7/29/2013 7:34 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 7/29/2013 7:18:00 PM (view original):
You like WAR.   Biggio was 13th in WAR7 amongst this season's candidates.   13th.    Raines was 11th.    Know who was 9th?  KennyfuckingLofton.  Who, IRC, is someone I compared Raines to back in the day.   Kenny Lofton-HOFer.  Does that sound right?
2 points:

1) This is an incredibly loaded ballot. Bonds and Clemens alone are both top 10 all time players. In 2012, Raines was 6th in WAR7 (and WAR and JAWS). If you use WAR (instead of cherry picking the best 7 years) Raines moves up to 8th. Ahead of Lofton.

2) Maybe you are selling Lofton short. His JAWS score puts him at 8th on this ballot. Ahead of Raines, Palmeiro, Biggio, McGwire, Piazza, and Sosa. He is significantly ahead of Bernie Williams, Don Mattingly, and Jack Morris (who comes in at a whopping 20th).

7/29/2013 7:51 PM
LOL @ bad_luck for discussing Kenny Lofton in a HOF discussion.
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