All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > tips for running one dominant scorer
8/21/2013 6:38 AM
Just because of my real life attitude toward coaching basketball, I resist having a dominant single scorer.  But, sometimes there is one guy who really is the best - PER along with relevant other attributes.

I'm looking for tips from folks who often run a dominant-scorer offense.   Do you try to anticipate double teams?  Other things I can do to make a dominant scorer offense work best?

I think my guy will be able to score through many double teams - and also pass out of them effectively.  But there must be offense management ideas...??
8/21/2013 7:48 AM
What do you call dominant scorer? How high of a distribution?
8/21/2013 7:54 AM
Looking for views on how best to execute that - but as a practical matter I would expect this guy to average say 25 ppg while no one else is in double digits.  This will invite double teams and other adjustments by some opponents.......hence the question - how best to handle from that initial assumption
8/21/2013 11:39 PM
If he's got the skills for multiple positions, put him in as a backup for two different positions and don't start him. That at least stops your opponents from matching their best defender up with him.
8/22/2013 1:08 AM
it's no problem vs. a press or a zone. I never have a player's distribution more than double everyone else's, though. 

Meaning if my top scorer has a 16 distro, my 2nd best scorer must be at least an 8 distro. 

vs. a man defense, if you can try to line him up against the opponent's weaker defender, that can help the player's success.   

8/22/2013 2:43 AM
I don't think there's any reason at all to generate an arbitrary criterion like "never set your highest distro to more than double your second-highest."  If you need that to check yourself and maintain reason in your game plan, ok, but realistically it's limiting your strategic options and may forbid the optimal distro settings.  Since any player taking over 50% of the shots of the players on the floor at the time is now going to face some penalty to his FG%, I generally try not to give my highest-distro player more than the other 4 starters combined.  However, if he happens to line up against a particularly poor defender in a man defense with a high confidence level (IE I'm pretty sure that guy will be playing where I think he will), I will far exceed that line even.  There may be some cases where even after a somewhat substantial penalty my #1 scorer is still the best option.

As far as double-teams go, I don't think there's a lot you can do.  If you're pretty sure one is coming, you can lower the guy's distro to compensate.  If he's a good passer the double is almost never a sound defensive strategy, so it's really going to work in your favor if your scorer starts drawing them.

8/22/2013 7:08 AM
Wait, there's a penalty with a player taking over 50% of the shots on the floor when he's in?  I don't remember hearing that before
8/22/2013 12:47 PM (edited)
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/22/2013 2:43:00 AM (view original):
I don't think there's any reason at all to generate an arbitrary criterion like "never set your highest distro to more than double your second-highest."  If you need that to check yourself and maintain reason in your game plan, ok, but realistically it's limiting your strategic options and may forbid the optimal distro settings.  Since any player taking over 50% of the shots of the players on the floor at the time is now going to face some penalty to his FG%, I generally try not to give my highest-distro player more than the other 4 starters combined.  However, if he happens to line up against a particularly poor defender in a man defense with a high confidence level (IE I'm pretty sure that guy will be playing where I think he will), I will far exceed that line even.  There may be some cases where even after a somewhat substantial penalty my #1 scorer is still the best option.

As far as double-teams go, I don't think there's a lot you can do.  If you're pretty sure one is coming, you can lower the guy's distro to compensate.  If he's a good passer the double is almost never a sound defensive strategy, so it's really going to work in your favor if your scorer starts drawing them.

I agree that it is arbitrary, it's just a rule thats worked for me over time.  I make some arbitrary rules to keep myself in check, and sometime share those as advice. It's another way of keeping players from taking too high of a percentage of shots, hurting their effectiveness.

The only time when I go to serious gameplanning extremes is when I have  a significant talent disadvantage in that particular game. I have no memory of ever being successful with one player taking a huge percentage of shots......but I'm sure it's possible if the advantage is huge enough. There are many situations where I've been successful having an inside guy and an outside guy take a huge percentage combined. 
8/23/2013 7:32 AM
Posted by stevejones16 on 8/21/2013 11:39:00 PM (view original):
If he's got the skills for multiple positions, put him in as a backup for two different positions and don't start him. That at least stops your opponents from matching their best defender up with him.
No offense, but I wouldn't even consider this. If you've got a guy who is head-and-shoulder better, you need him on the floor as much as possible, and you want him on the floor at the end of games. The opportunity cost of possibly (remember, opponents can simply swap their pg for their sg) avoiding a better defender isn't close to worth it ... and remember, this is high DI, so the odds are that both potential defenders are both quite strong.

I also agree I would never set an arbitrary rules or numbers for this (or just about anything else).

Not sure what your schedule looks like, but I would reduce his distro in game you know you'll win.

How much distro he gets relative to others is highly dependent on what I think of him vs. the others. What team we looking at? I would definitely plan to reevaluate everyone's efficiency at the end of the regular season and make some tweaks.

8/23/2013 9:39 AM
Last night I played a team with a dominant scorer (35% of his team's total offense, 26 PPG). He was a 90 SPD, 90 PER, 90 BH, 80 P type guy (D2). To take advantage of matchups, my opponent played him at center. 

That's a new strategy that I had not seen before, but the dude still scored 28 points on 25 shots over a double-team. He kept his regular center on the floor at SF, but he was playing a 2-3 zone, so this didn't hurt him on defense as far as I can tell. I outrebounded him like crazy, but I'm not sure whether it was because his center was playing SF or just because I have better rebounding. 
8/23/2013 10:12 AM
Posted by girt25 on 8/23/2013 7:32:00 AM (view original):
Posted by stevejones16 on 8/21/2013 11:39:00 PM (view original):
If he's got the skills for multiple positions, put him in as a backup for two different positions and don't start him. That at least stops your opponents from matching their best defender up with him.
No offense, but I wouldn't even consider this. If you've got a guy who is head-and-shoulder better, you need him on the floor as much as possible, and you want him on the floor at the end of games. The opportunity cost of possibly (remember, opponents can simply swap their pg for their sg) avoiding a better defender isn't close to worth it ... and remember, this is high DI, so the odds are that both potential defenders are both quite strong.

I also agree I would never set an arbitrary rules or numbers for this (or just about anything else).

Not sure what your schedule looks like, but I would reduce his distro in game you know you'll win.

How much distro he gets relative to others is highly dependent on what I think of him vs. the others. What team we looking at? I would definitely plan to reevaluate everyone's efficiency at the end of the regular season and make some tweaks.

I've done the bringing a guy off the bench at multiple positions thing a number of times to good success.  While you're right in that he'll sometimes miss end of game situations, I think that's more than made up for by the fact that his efficiency is so much higher when he is in the game (playing against lower quality defenders).  And if you put him as 1st backup at 2, or even 3 positions, he'll get the same number of minutes he'd have gotten as a starter.
8/23/2013 1:20 PM
Posted by ll316 on 8/23/2013 10:12:00 AM (view original):
Posted by girt25 on 8/23/2013 7:32:00 AM (view original):
Posted by stevejones16 on 8/21/2013 11:39:00 PM (view original):
If he's got the skills for multiple positions, put him in as a backup for two different positions and don't start him. That at least stops your opponents from matching their best defender up with him.
No offense, but I wouldn't even consider this. If you've got a guy who is head-and-shoulder better, you need him on the floor as much as possible, and you want him on the floor at the end of games. The opportunity cost of possibly (remember, opponents can simply swap their pg for their sg) avoiding a better defender isn't close to worth it ... and remember, this is high DI, so the odds are that both potential defenders are both quite strong.

I also agree I would never set an arbitrary rules or numbers for this (or just about anything else).

Not sure what your schedule looks like, but I would reduce his distro in game you know you'll win.

How much distro he gets relative to others is highly dependent on what I think of him vs. the others. What team we looking at? I would definitely plan to reevaluate everyone's efficiency at the end of the regular season and make some tweaks.

I've done the bringing a guy off the bench at multiple positions thing a number of times to good success.  While you're right in that he'll sometimes miss end of game situations, I think that's more than made up for by the fact that his efficiency is so much higher when he is in the game (playing against lower quality defenders).  And if you put him as 1st backup at 2, or even 3 positions, he'll get the same number of minutes he'd have gotten as a starter.
I think it depends on how he rates as a defender.  If he is a relatively weak defender, I might consider bringing him off the bench at multiple positions (so that he can light up opposing backups).  If he is a terrible defender, that's almost certainly how I'd use him.  But if he is one of your five best defenders or the best defender at a position that he can reasonably play, then I agree with Dan - you've got to start him, and I think it would be dumb not to do so.

My rule of thumb for using a dominant scorer is that I will rarely have anyone above 30% of the entire team distribution (although I will occasionally push that up to 33-35% in extreme situations, such as when I think most of my other players are going to struggle to score).  No reason other than it is an approach that has worked for me in the past, whereas when I've pushed a guy higher than that it seemed to lower his efficiency.

8/23/2013 2:13 PM
Davis, since mamxet plays at very high DI, I made the leap to assume that the stud scorer would also be one of the strongest defenders and overall players, and wouldn't be weak defensively. Presuming that is accurate, I think you'd be shooting yourself in the foot to have him come off the bench.

If you're at D2 or D3, where it's much more likely to have a strong scorer who is a defensive liability, I could potentially see more of an argument for the off-the-bench strategy.
8/23/2013 2:30 PM
i agree, you pretty much have to start this guy, unless he is a major defensive liability, relative to the team. and still then its questionable - im a fan of having a strong scoring guard or something playing backup to pick up most of the backup shots, and that can be very effective - so can playing backup at 2 spots. but if you dont already have decent scoring on the starting lineup, you pretty much need to reconcile that, first. the "play a star scorer" as backup, which ive recommended a bunch myself, makes sense when you already have sufficient scoring on your first line, and the marginal increase in offensive ability by having this low defense high offense guy start, is much less than the marginal increase in your backup line's offensive ability. then, that will clearly offset the loss of minutes for the player.

also, any time the guys offensive abilities make him a borderline starter or worse, the backup role makes sense, but that is effectively a statement that is always valid. the only interesting case to consider, to me, is when do you take a guy who is on his own, starter material (for your team, its all relative, of course), and play him at backup? to me the answer is never, when your whole team sucks and you need this one guy to bail you out.
8/23/2013 3:00 PM
I generally only do it for defensive purposes (ie the guy I start instead of the stud scoring would-be starter is a clear defensive step up and my opponent has a lot of scoring coming at that position) although I do enjoy the ability that affords me (really best against a M2M) to have a sniper assassin just drift from spot to spot as your starters rotate in and out around him. 
of 2
All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > tips for running one dominant scorer

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.