All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Do recruiting actions happen in order or at once?
9/19/2013 6:25 PM
Say on one cycle you want a guy to accept your home visits. You do a bunch of scouting trips to make sure...does it matter if you enter the scouting trips first or not?
9/19/2013 7:38 PM
No
9/20/2013 1:28 PM
No it doesn't matter but he may reject your home visits anyway.
9/22/2013 1:48 AM
Good question. I didn't think so ... but didn't really know for sure.
9/26/2013 10:53 PM
I'll trust bistiz and alblack on this one... and for some reason the question made immediately think of this scenario:

I love when I get a guy who accepts a promised start, and then rejects 10 minutes of playing time.  Clearly some sort of problem with the program.  He should be replying with some sort of smart a$$ reply like... "well coach, I was hoping when you promised to start me I would STAY in the game for a few minutes, that's a good one coach, haha"
9/26/2013 11:16 PM
^ Not necessarily a problem.  He might be offended that you're "only" offering him 10 minutes.  I mean, I don't know how it's coded.  But it does make some logical sense.  He'd sort of "choose" the start over the 10 minutes anyway.  And I'm sure he'd hope to get well over 10 minutes as a starter (though I know you can promise a guy a start and then keep him barely out on the court). 
9/27/2013 9:57 AM
You can only start a guy and keep him on the court for a short period of time (on a consistent basis, anyway) if you use minutes based substitutions instead of fatigue based substitutions. Just set his minutes low.

Otherwise, even with setting him to fairly fresh on fatigue based substitutions, he'll still play a lot (15-20 mpg, probably) based on his stamina and his ability to stay out of foul trouble (depending upon your setting for foul trouble too).

9/27/2013 10:58 AM
My guess is that the system processes the higher value actions first.  I have had CV and HV rejected but then the recruit go from undecided to considering because of a schollrship or ST offered in the same cycle.
9/27/2013 11:14 AM
trentonjoe, I think that happens because while your bigger effort was rejected, the accepted effort of the STs and scholarship was enough to get him to start considering you. I don't think it has anything to do with order, but I could be wrong.
9/27/2013 11:28 AM
Okay, so the way I see it there are two options.

1.) There is no order to the actions, the sum of your effort's  worth is just added together.   If it is done that way, then your starting value determines if a CV or minutes is accepted.

2.) There is an order and each action is added in seperately.   If it works this way, I think the large value effort goes first.

Ultimatelly, it probably isn't important.   I suspect whatever way is easier to code is how it is done.
9/27/2013 1:13 PM
in terms of prior recruiting actions affecting the acceptance rate of subsequent actions within the same cycle (including promises) - NO there is NO difference, im 99.9% sure of that

in terms of the order of your actions affecting the responses you get, maybe even with respect to the actions of any other schools on the recruit - there may be something there. i was never sure it was worth looking into, so i didnt, but it does seem to me a smart coach might be able to extract some information there...
9/30/2013 11:50 PM
Posted by jetwildcat on 9/19/2013 6:25:00 PM (view original):
Say on one cycle you want a guy to accept your home visits. You do a bunch of scouting trips to make sure...does it matter if you enter the scouting trips first or not?

Date User
2/23/2012 8:27 PM jtt8355
I'm in a recruiting battle for Lee Cribb. Before the 8 o' clock cycle, I was behind. So, I made the following efforts (in THIS ORDER): 1. 7 hv's. Submitted the effort. 2. Promised 15 minutes. Submitted the effort. My intention was for the hv's to be factored in, so that I would be ahead, and then the 15 minutes push me over. Instead, when the 8 o'clock messages came in, the messages came in the following order: 1st, the recruit declined the minutes, 2nd hv response, 3rs, schollie message that I'm ahead. Had the hv's been processed 1st (which would have put me ahead), there's no way the minutes would have been declined! So, I lose out on the $10 (its a big deal bc I'm hanging by a thread) and I don't get credit for the effort... Please address asap so my recruiting is materially affected. Thanks!
2/24/2012 7:45 AM jtt8355
Already finished recruiting so no rush. But please address / fix the recruiting effort submission stated above (ie, efforts should be applied in the order that they are submitted).
2/27/2012 8:35 AM Customer Support
Jamie,

Recruiting actions submitted for a given period are processed from small to large, not in order of submission. So actions such as phone calls and letters are handled first, and then working up through scouting trips, home visits, and campus visits. Promised minutes are processed between the smaller actions (letters/calls) and the larger ones (visits).

That's always been the way it's worked, so there aren't any plans to change it. The only way to guarantee the order of processing is to separate actions into different recruiting cycles.
10/1/2013 12:03 AM
oh ****
10/1/2013 2:23 AM
i could maybe believe that, as my (different) opinion is generally predicated on promises not being affected by your actions, that the starting situation reigns as the factor in determining if promises are accepted, or not. could smaller efforts possibly be considered, especially if "smaller efforts" does not include scouting visits? very possible, as there are caps on those efforts and they can only have so much effect.

however, i do rebel at several consequences that would (seemingly) be inferred from that statement. the first is allowing SVs to impact home and campus visits. minimally, we can be almost absolutely sure that this is not the case in pulldown situations - which is precisely when it really matters. we have all tried this too many times and know your actions are rejected even after you are considered. i suppose if scholarships are considered last (which seems like it may be the case), they could be what pushes people to being considered... but after so many samples, i struggle to believe that, seems like fifty times ive sent a hv or cv just for the heck of it, yet to succeed. but maybe others have had this work for them?

there is also the question of, is it more complicated than CS leads on? i would guess people would guess no, but i struggle to see how it works that way. if scholarship responses are supposed to be considered, are they processed last for each party, after all other effort is processed? it sure seems like that must be the case, or they would be inaccurate. also, who is processed first? do the processing actions of one party affect the other party, even with the possible exceptions of the respective scholarship offers? if so, does this mean your opponent's actions can change your promise outcome? i strongly believe this answer is NO, it seems to me promises are accepted even when an opponent knocks you off. so what then, certain actions base their outcome on the starting position, and certain actions do not? if so, why is it some actions, not all? or is it all actions? merely processing actions in some order does not necessarily mean the state is updating after ever processing action, that the effects of one action can impact the outcome of another.

i suppose, after reading what i initially considered a very different response than expected, i see little in terms of actual meaningful difference - even if actions can theoretically impact the success of subsequent actions. one more thought that comes to mind is, when far behind in a d1 battle at the point of initiation (for example, a late start in a situation where you are not considered at all, don't you get roughly the same failure rate on visits for the first ones you send, and the later ones? if actions took effect before the subsequent action (in the ordering CS described) actually took effect - which is all that matters to us (it is 100% irrelevant, it seems to me, what the order of processing is, if there is no impact on the state subsequent actions are evaluated with) - if those actions took effect, in a string of 50 HVs 5 at a time, why do the final few sets of 5 seem to be rejected as often as the first?

it seems to me the seminal question here is, does the processing action update the state used to evaluate subsequent actions, within the same cycle? and if so, how do actions of one party in a battle affect the evaluation of the actions of the other, within the same cycle?
10/1/2013 3:34 PM
my impression (again, impression) is that the impact of being "in a battle" as you described can be quantified on a linear scale. E.G. say you start out recruiting at "-10" and as you give effort you get closer to "0" until you're considered, which would be "0". Another school being tight with that player might bump up the scale so you're starting at "-50" instead of "-10" (where -50 might be 20% HV acceptance . So the question becomes: does the scale move actively during the cycle or just at the end?

My guess is that it moves at the end based on what I know about HD. More of a WAG than a SWAG. However, this would mean that CS's response to jtt is unintentionally (but irresponsibly) misleading.
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