All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > Progressive Theme League Classifieds > "Picks up to one year in advance" -- ???
9/25/2013 2:22 PM
I'd like to get some feedback from prog owners.  We're having a discussion in a prog I'm in about a rule that states you're allowed to trade picks up to one year in advance.  We're currently in the 2002 season. 

Would you interpret the rule to mean:

A) You can only trade picks for the 2003 draft, and nothing beyond that

B) You can trade picks for the 2003 and 2004 draft




9/25/2013 2:28 PM
A.   Seems a no-brainer to me. How could "one year in advance" when within the 2002 season POSSIBLY be interpreted as the 2004 draft??

I'd also suggest a rule re-write to clarify the situation. Something with language stating in the "upcoming draft" or the "next draft only" or "draft succeeding the current season" or words that accomplish the same clarity.     GL.

9/25/2013 2:50 PM
Thanks for the feedback!

As for me, I look at the 2003 draft as the "current" draft.  It's not under way now, but it's the current draft in terms of it's coming up next, and when you tell another owner I'll give you my 1st rounder for that player he knows you mean a 2003 1st rounder.  

One year in advance, to me, means one year beyond the current draft.  Otherwise the rule would have language similar to what you suggested in your second paragraph: "upcoming draft" "next draft only" etc.  It seems odd to say "one year in advance" if what you're referring to is the next draft only.  
9/25/2013 3:12 PM (edited)
I'll have to agree with crazyS here.

I've always inferred the one year in advance rule to mean one year beyond the current draft.  For example, "current" meaning the 2002 season being intertwined with the 2003 draft.  Therefore, I'll go with B.  It is also a more sensible rule, since it provides owners with additional options when wheeling and dealing.

To avoid any future confusion, an example or several examples should be provided by commish to clarify rules.  Probably should have been done prior to the league play beginning, but that is all water under the bridge now.
9/25/2013 3:59 PM
I've also seen something of a hybrid.  Pre-120 games (assuming that is trade deadline), only picks in the coming draft can be traded - in your league only 2003 picks.  Past 120, it is 2003 and 2004 available. 
9/25/2013 5:30 PM
Posted by spaolo on 9/25/2013 3:12:00 PM (view original):
I'll have to agree with crazyS here.

I've always inferred the one year in advance rule to mean one year beyond the current draft.  For example, "current" meaning the 2002 season being intertwined with the 2003 draft.  Therefore, I'll go with B.  It is also a more sensible rule, since it provides owners with additional options when wheeling and dealing.

To avoid any future confusion, an example or several examples should be provided by commish to clarify rules.  Probably should have been done prior to the league play beginning, but that is all water under the bridge now.
Just to give the back story, the original commish (who wrote up the rule) is no longer active on WIS, so at this point we don't know exactly what his intent was.  And now we have a pending trade involving 2003 and 2004 picks, and some owners believe it violates the rule.  I can see the thinking behind that interpretation, but I disagree with it.
9/25/2013 5:39 PM
Yes. Crazy S. I see your logic. The whole problem here was imprecise language in the writing of the original rule.  "One year in advance" is just horribly ambigious. (sp?)  Advance from when?? end of season? beginning of season?  The only obvious part of that language is trades during a draft. Would be kinda hard to infer that completing a trade DURING a 2002 Draft that you'd be able to trade a 2004 draft pick as in that case it would obviously be beyond a "year in advance"

Using that scenario---------logic would tend to infer that the original intent was that only the next upcoming draft picks could be traded. As in that specific situation (above) a 2004 draft pick would be beyond the "year in advance".  make any sense? 

LB

9/25/2013 5:45 PM
In the NWP, we use very specific language and examples.  From our constitution:

"Draft picks may be traded up to 2 seasons in advance. For example, in the 1977 season, teams may trade 1978 or 1979 draft picks. During the 1978 draft, teams may trade picks for the current draft, or for the 1979 or 1980 drafts, etc."

From this wording (which I wrote), "2 seasons in advance" is clearly meant to indicate the next 2 drafts.  So if I were to see the words "1 season in advance" I would assume that it means ONLY the very next draft.  I can see the ambiguity here - which is why I spelled out with examples exactly what I meant - but absent such clarifying examples, I would assume the commissioner meant interpretation (A) in crazystengel's original post.

9/25/2013 6:20 PM
So apparently this is as challenging as interpreting the Dead Sea Scrolls, or the lyrics in "Louie Louie," ha ha.  I'll say this, though.  The rule reads "Picks up to one year in advance," not "Picks only one year in advance."  To me, the former suggests a sort of extension, while the latter would suggest a limit or cut-off.  It seems to me if the commish's intent were to limit trading picks to the upcoming draft, there are a million easier ways to say it.
9/26/2013 1:34 PM
 To me it would mean one year in adavance. One year in advance is the current league year plus one.
9/27/2013 2:06 PM
The original wording was unclear, and in that case I'd be inclined to go with the most conservative reading of the rules.

As for how I think such things should work, as I said in the league's forum, it really depends upon the league itself.  Some leagues like contrarian23's NWP league have a fairly stable and committed group of owners.  Trades a couple years down the line can be assumed to remain the responsibility of the owner who made them.  I have been in other prog leagues with much more chaotic ownership situations... leagues that have, in the past, had instances of owners gutting teams of picks and prospects to load up for a WS run or two, then dumping the team when the bottom falls out.  Trying to get replacement owners for a team with no good guys and no draft picks is nearly impossible.  In that case, some kind of insurance should be required from owners who seem intent on blowing off a lot of future draft picks.
9/27/2013 8:40 PM
We've used same rule in the NEAnderthal League for 45 seasons and its meant to allow 2003 picks during the 2002 season and allows 2003 and 2004 picks during the 2003 draft/post-trade deadline. Allowing a 2004 pick to be traded for a player for a playoff run in 2002 is NOT "one year in advance". I think that's a pretty standard interpretation in the many progressives I've been in.
9/28/2013 1:54 AM
In any event, the other owner and I who were involved in this trade worked around the rule (fuzzy to some, CRYSTAL CLEAR to others) and did basically the same deal (I substituted the 1st in 2004 for a 2nd in 2003 and a player), so no harm done and no hard feelings.  I suppose since 2 of the 3 progs I'm in allow deals beyond the next draft I was used to the idea.
9/28/2013 11:36 AM
Maybe its time for someone to come up with a "Format" where all the standard rules are in the same order and the commish fills in the blanks.

For example Rule 3 : The draft order for the next season is:  worst record from last season, or worst record at game 120, or weighted lottery for 6 worst teams etc,or that JM4r formula.

Rule 4 Trading draft picks:  If you are currently in a season that  last digit is a 1 you can trade for a pick that ends a digit with (what ever number).

Rule 5 Ballparks

Rule 22 Possible expansion or contraction.

This would make as many rules as clear as possible 

also if you are in several progressives you could easily check the rules and not get confused.

I'd write it myself but i don't think I have enough prog. experience.

All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > Progressive Theme League Classifieds > "Picks up to one year in advance" -- ???

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