11/17/2013 11:42 AM (edited)
The updated version - post update!

Some items will need more opinion and comment.

So we will again start the problem list. Please investigate the points below and give feedback on how they are or are not corrected. Keep bickering and bantering to a minimum - we only have a short time left.

Updated 11-16

No one missing extra points - 11/16
No INT returned for TD's - 11/16
Starters not  getting credit for starts - Work in process 11/16
Blitzers seem to disappear from the play - Did a little research - Blitzer shows up again about 4% of the time. (11/16)
Large (>10%) offensive line advantages not providing enough effect for run ave or pass blocking results (sacks) - Hard to determine without ability to see engine comparisons - Community opinion?
Phantom field goal after game over on box score - Phantom scores reported - 11/9
Not able to have more control over defensive settings (% choice - but end result is either all pass or all run) - We want choice! In WIS hands. Opinions?
Correctly guessing run/pass has far too much importance on play results. Still believe this is true - but opinions?
Stamina/fatigue needs review - not enough impact as yet between high and low stamina players. Still not the best - need opinions.
DB all over the field and covering everyone - Still seeing this (11/16)
Mysterious Tackler involved in plays - Still seeing the dreaded Tackler Mostly on TD's (11/16)
WR getting minus YAC when pass completed - Still see this (11/16)
Points scored can still be too high Getting more in line with ratings differences between teams.(11/16) Community opinion?
Have not evaluated penalties - Penalty numbers seem to be in line - need to check on some penalties not being called from finish of play (PBP problem)(11/16)
Have not evaluated injuries -  Injuries not included yet (11/16)
QB passing ability goes up with Division but DB ability doesn't keep up - Community opinion?
Some plays missing final yardage result (11/16)
Penalties against defense negate TD on offense? - Input?
DB knocks down pass or WR drops pass and then it is intercepted - I'm back! (11-7)
Flaws in time-out logic - (11-16)
Scoreboard stats for penalty first downs is switched (gives penalized team first down credit) - (11/17)

11/16/2013 7:10 PM
1.  AGREE:  Large (>10%) offensive line advantages not providing enough effect for run ave or pass blocking results (sacks) - Hard to determine without ability to see engine comparisons - Community opinion?  
2.  AGREE:  APPEARS TO BE THE LARGEST SINGLE FACTOR.  Correctly guessing run/pass has far too much importance on play results. Still believe this is true - but opinions?
3. STILL SEEING:  Mysterious Tackler involved in plays - Still seeing the dreaded Tackler Mostly on TD's (11/16)
4.  STILL SEEING:  WR getting minus YAC when pass completed - Still see this (11/16)
5.  I DON'T REALLY SEE THIS AS A PROBLEM:  Points scored can still be too high Getting more in line with ratings differences between teams.(11/16) Community opinion?
6.  STILL SEEING:  Some plays missing final yardage result (11/16)
11/16/2013 7:14 PM
Regarding "guessing run/pass correctly on defense", perhaps if Oriole could explain to us exactly how LBs operate, this might alleviate our concerns.

If their GI allows them to "read the play" and then drop off...or move up, then I can see that we might use our LBs differently.

This one is a hard one to balance, IMO, since we are not calling defense setups on a play by play basis in real time.
11/16/2013 7:58 PM
I've probably missed this question somewhere, but are all passes being "incomplete middle / complete middle" going to be corrected?
11/16/2013 8:26 PM
Posted by katzphang88 on 11/16/2013 4:45:00 PM (view original):
The updated version - post update!

Some items will need more opinion and comment.

So we will again start the problem list. Please investigate the points below and give feedback on how they are or are not corrected. Keep bickering and bantering to a minimum - we only have a short time left.

Updated 11-16

No one missing extra points - 11/16
No INT returned for TD's - 11/16
Starters not  getting credit for starts - Work in process 11/16
Blitzers seem to disappear from the play - Did a little research - Blitzer shows up again about 4% of the time. (11/16)
Large (>10%) offensive line advantages not providing enough effect for run ave or pass blocking results (sacks) - Hard to determine without ability to see engine comparisons - Community opinion?
Phantom field goal after game over on box score - Phantom scores reported - 11/9
Not able to have more control over defensive settings (% choice - but end result is either all pass or all run) - We want choice! In WIS hands. Opinions?
Correctly guessing run/pass has far too much importance on play results. Still believe this is true - but opinions?
Stamina/fatigue needs review - not enough impact as yet between high and low stamina players. Still not the best - need opinions.
DB all over the field and covering everyone - Still seeing this (11/16)
Mysterious Tackler involved in plays - Still seeing the dreaded Tackler Mostly on TD's (11/16)
WR getting minus YAC when pass completed - Still see this (11/16)
Points scored can still be too high Getting more in line with ratings differences between teams.(11/16) Community opinion?
Have not evaluated penalties - Penalty numbers seem to be in line - need to check on some penalties not being called from finish of play (PBP problem)(11/16)
Have not evaluated injuries -  Injuries not included yet (11/16)
QB passing ability goes up with Division but DB ability doesn't keep up - Community opinion?
Some plays missing final yardage result (11/16)
Penalties against defense negate TD on offense? - Input?
DB knocks down pass or WR drops pass and then it is intercepted - I'm back! (11-7)
Flaws in time-out logic - (11-16)
Penalties against defense negate TD on offense? - Input?

I understand that this is happening. It's a problem. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by input?

Also I have yet to see any injuries in a 3.0 game. With some worlds already almost through a season what/when is the plan for injuries to be included if they are? I just don't get some of whats going on with this game.
11/16/2013 10:05 PM
I suppose my bottom line opinion is this:  the game certainly has some items that need to be addressed.  However, it is absolutely PLAYABLE.  I wish it did not take so long for initial setup, but it is definitely playable and the results are reasonable.
11/16/2013 11:28 PM
Jibe wrote:
Penalties against defense negate TD on offense? - Input?

I understand that this is happening. It's a problem. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by input?

What I wanted was that the community let me know when they see this as I have not seen it myself. Just want to know if it still pops up so I can include it.
11/17/2013 1:26 AM
Posted by harriswb3 on 11/16/2013 7:10:00 PM (view original):
1.  AGREE:  Large (>10%) offensive line advantages not providing enough effect for run ave or pass blocking results (sacks) - Hard to determine without ability to see engine comparisons - Community opinion?  
2.  AGREE:  APPEARS TO BE THE LARGEST SINGLE FACTOR.  Correctly guessing run/pass has far too much importance on play results. Still believe this is true - but opinions?
3. STILL SEEING:  Mysterious Tackler involved in plays - Still seeing the dreaded Tackler Mostly on TD's (11/16)
4.  STILL SEEING:  WR getting minus YAC when pass completed - Still see this (11/16)
5.  I DON'T REALLY SEE THIS AS A PROBLEM:  Points scored can still be too high Getting more in line with ratings differences between teams.(11/16) Community opinion?
6.  STILL SEEING:  Some plays missing final yardage result (11/16)
How have you come to this conclusion on 2. On a given run or pass play guess, the number of LBs in Cover and Line isn't always easy to identify in the PbP and talent matters in that as well.
11/17/2013 6:24 AM
Posted by katzphang88 on 11/16/2013 11:28:00 PM (view original):
Jibe wrote:
Penalties against defense negate TD on offense? - Input?

I understand that this is happening. It's a problem. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by input?

What I wanted was that the community let me know when they see this as I have not seen it myself. Just want to know if it still pops up so I can include it.
thanks
11/17/2013 7:10 AM (edited)
Posted by zsap on 11/17/2013 1:26:00 AM (view original):
Posted by harriswb3 on 11/16/2013 7:10:00 PM (view original):
1.  AGREE:  Large (>10%) offensive line advantages not providing enough effect for run ave or pass blocking results (sacks) - Hard to determine without ability to see engine comparisons - Community opinion?  
2.  AGREE:  APPEARS TO BE THE LARGEST SINGLE FACTOR.  Correctly guessing run/pass has far too much importance on play results. Still believe this is true - but opinions?
3. STILL SEEING:  Mysterious Tackler involved in plays - Still seeing the dreaded Tackler Mostly on TD's (11/16)
4.  STILL SEEING:  WR getting minus YAC when pass completed - Still see this (11/16)
5.  I DON'T REALLY SEE THIS AS A PROBLEM:  Points scored can still be too high Getting more in line with ratings differences between teams.(11/16) Community opinion?
6.  STILL SEEING:  Some plays missing final yardage result (11/16)
How have you come to this conclusion on 2. On a given run or pass play guess, the number of LBs in Cover and Line isn't always easy to identify in the PbP and talent matters in that as well.
I did not do a scientific analysis, and of course I can only see my own defensive data.  But via two teams (one very good and the other a new pickup that is quite mediocre), my overall impression is that having the run/pass defense correct seems to be more important than where the LBs are positioned.   However, I will say that LB positioning does seem to impact the result as well, particularly on defending the pass.  Again, no hard data, but appearance.

I think the key here, is that we point out what we are seeing and let the developer look at it.  He is the only one with enough data to be able to analyze it correctly.  
 
11/18/2013 10:56 AM (edited)
Defensive holding not resulting in a first down.
11/18/2013 11:25 AM (edited)
Not able to have more control over defensive settings (% choice - but end result is either all pass or all run) - We want choice! In WIS hands. Opinions?

I think the only realistic change you could make would be "Run / Balanced / Pass".    In real life, you can't be "75% expecting the run" and even if you could, how would that be reflected in how a defense would react?  And still I think the "bonus / penalty" for guessing the type of play call should be small.  Formation, player positioning, and player attributes should be determining factors, not a random "run/pass" guess.  I would suggest it be along the lines of +/- 2%, with a "balanced" look resulting in a "zero" influence (no bonus, no penalty.)

Frankly, the whole defensive part of the game needs a drastic overhaul.  I want the option of choosing a man or zone defense.  I want the option of stunting on the DL or a straight bull rush.  I want to decide between playing bump and run, or laying off the receiver.  (Maybe "short/medium/long" coverage does that, not sure.)  Oh well, maybe 3.5 will give us more control over defenses.


11/18/2013 12:58 PM
1st half boxscore says I got 2 first downs by penalty, but it also shows that my opponent didn't commit a penalty and the PBP shows no penalties on my opponent.

Gridiron Dynasty - Football Sim Games - Boxscore - California Lutheran vs East Texas Baptist
11/18/2013 3:13 PM
I think this is a known and documented problem at this point, but had my first encounter with the faulty penalty acceptance logic today:

12:25 Own 28 1st & 10   OFF: Trips    DEF: Nickel

Defense lines up for a pass with a cover Long. Robert Bender takes the snap and drops back to pass. Brown (Belcher,Bailey,Harris) is covered at the PPC 35 (Medium). The defense is starting to get pressure on Bender. Maldonado (Brown,Bailey,White) is covered at the PPC 37 (Medium). Bender throws to Clark (Belcher) at the PPC 36 (Medium). Clark makes the catch. Clark is tackled by Belcher at the PPC 42 . 14 yards on the play. PENALTY on OC, Defensive Pass Interference, 8 yards, enforced at PPC 36.



We turned down a 14 yard gain (which would have resulted in a first down) in order to accept an 8 yard penalty. It didn't impact the outcome of the game at all, but in a tight game or in a moment where field position was critical...
11/18/2013 3:19 PM
I'm pretty new to seeing 3.0, but it looks like far too many passes are going to RBs.  The top 10 receivers in Stagg D1A are all RBs, all averaging over 10 catches per game.
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