All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Disturbing comments from Cooperstown President.
12/1/2013 3:02 PM
No, I have not.
12/1/2013 3:29 PM
So are you SURE steroids have a far greater impact on performance?
12/1/2013 4:13 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/1/2013 3:29:00 PM (view original):
So are you SURE steroids have a far greater impact on performance?
No one is sure about that.
12/1/2013 5:01 PM
Well, the six best single season HR totals all occurred right in the heart of the steroid era.....all by guys who have been linked to/found guilty of/admitted to taking roids.
12/1/2013 5:07 PM
++

League Year-By-Year Batting--Averages

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Year Tms #Bat BatAge R/G G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
2013 30 1304 28.5 4.17 4862 38.02 34.16 4.17 8.66 1.69 0.16 0.96 3.96 0.55 0.21 3.01 7.55 .253 .318 .396 .714 13.54 0.77 0.32 0.28 0.25 0.21
2012 30 1284 28.5 4.32 4860 37.90 34.00 4.32 8.65 1.70 0.19 1.02 4.12 0.66 0.23 3.03 7.50 .255 .319 .405 .724 13.78 0.74 0.31 0.30 0.25 0.22
2011 30 1295 28.7 4.28 4858 38.13 34.11 4.28 8.70 1.73 0.18 0.94 4.08 0.67 0.26 3.09 7.10 .255 .321 .399 .720 13.61 0.73 0.32 0.34 0.26 0.25
2010 30 1249 28.9 4.38 4860 38.18 34.02 4.38 8.76 1.75 0.18 0.95 4.17 0.61 0.23 3.25 7.06 .257 .325 .403 .728 13.71 0.77 0.32 0.32 0.27 0.25
2009 30 1266 28.8 4.61 4860 38.49 34.13 4.61 8.96 1.80 0.20 1.04 4.40 0.61 0.23 3.42 6.91 .262 .333 .418 .751 14.26 0.78 0.33 0.34 0.28 0.24
2008 30 1291 28.8 4.65 4856 38.64 34.33 4.65 9.06 1.86 0.18 1.00 4.44 0.58 0.21 3.36 6.77 .264 .333 .416 .749 14.29 0.80 0.34 0.31 0.28 0.27
2007 30 1278 29.1 4.80 4862 38.80 34.51 4.80 9.25 1.89 0.19 1.02 4.58 0.60 0.21 3.31 6.62 .268 .336 .423 .758 14.59 0.82 0.36 0.32 0.30 0.27
2006 30 1242 29.1 4.86 4858 38.71 34.45 4.86 9.28 1.88 0.20 1.11 4.63 0.57 0.23 3.26 6.52 .269 .337 .432 .768 14.88 0.81 0.37 0.34 0.29 0.29
2005 30 1237 29.2 4.59 4862 38.32 34.21 4.59 9.05 1.82 0.18 1.03 4.37 0.53 0.22 3.13 6.30 .264 .330 .419 .749 14.33 0.80 0.37 0.33 0.27 0.25
2004 30 1247 29.3 4.81 4856 38.83 34.46 4.81 9.17 1.84 0.18 1.12 4.58 0.53 0.23 3.34 6.55 .266 .335 .428 .763 14.74 0.78 0.38 0.36 0.28 0.28
2003 30 1230 29.1 4.73 4860 38.57 34.31 4.73 9.07 1.82 0.19 1.07 4.50 0.53 0.23 3.27 6.34 .264 .333 .422 .755 14.48 0.79 0.38 0.33 0.27 0.27
2002 30 1218 29.2 4.62 4852 38.46 34.13 4.62 8.92 1.79 0.19 1.04 4.40 0.57 0.26 3.35 6.47 .261 .331 .417 .748 14.22 0.79 0.36 0.34 0.29 0.30
2001 30 1220 29.1 4.78 4858 38.49 34.22 4.78 9.03 1.81 0.19 1.12 4.55 0.64 0.29 3.25 6.67 .264 .332 .427 .759 14.60 0.75 0.39 0.33 0.29 0.28
2000 30 1230 29.1 5.14 4858 39.16 34.44 5.14 9.31 1.83 0.20 1.17 4.89 0.60 0.27 3.75 6.45 .270 .345 .437 .782 15.05 0.80 0.32 0.34 0.31 0.25
1999 30 1209 28.9 5.08 4856 39.06 34.42 5.08 9.33 1.80 0.19 1.14 4.83 0.70 0.31 3.68 6.41 .271 .345 .434 .778 14.93 0.79 0.33 0.33 0.30 0.23
1998 30 1186 28.9 4.79 4864 38.71 34.36 4.79 9.15 1.80 0.18 1.04 4.54 0.68 0.31 3.38 6.56 .266 .335 .420 .755 14.44 0.76 0.33 0.35 0.29 0.22
1997 28 1123 28.9 4.77 4532 38.73 34.30 4.77 9.15 1.77 0.19 1.02 4.52 0.73 0.35 3.46 6.61 .267 .337 .419 .756 14.38 0.76 0.32 0.35 0.31 0.26
1996 28 1141 28.8 5.04 4534 39.10 34.58 5.04 9.33 1.76 0.19 1.09 4.76 0.71 0.30 3.55 6.46 .270 .340 .427 .767 14.76 0.80 0.31 0.34 0.31 0.30
1995 28 1133 28.6 4.85 4034 38.85 34.35 4.85 9.17 1.72 0.20 1.01 4.57 0.73 0.31 3.53 6.30 .267 .338 .417 .755 14.33 0.78 0.30 0.37 0.29 0.27
1994 28 991 28.7 4.92 3200 38.90 34.46 4.92 9.29 1.79 0.22 1.03 4.64 0.71 0.32 3.48 6.18 .270 .339 .424 .763 14.62 0.76 0.27 0.38 0.31 0.32
1993 28 1104 28.4 4.60 4538 38.47 34.15 4.60 9.05 1.64 0.21 0.89 4.32 0.72 0.37 3.33 5.80 .265 .332 .403 .736 13.77 0.76 0.26 0.40 0.32 0.33
1992 26 1007 28.4 4.12 4212 38.12 33.93 4.12 8.68 1.56 0.20 0.72 3.87 0.77 0.38 3.25 5.59 .256 .322 .377 .700 12.80 0.74 0.23 0.40 0.31 0.31
1991 26 1034 28.5 4.31 4208 38.20 33.98 4.31 8.69 1.54 0.21 0.80 4.05 0.74 0.37 3.32 5.80 .256 .323 .385 .708 13.07 0.72 0.22 0.39 0.30 0.29
1990 26 1030 28.5 4.26 4210 38.08 33.91 4.26 8.75 1.55 0.21 0.79 3.99 0.78 0.36 3.29 5.67 .258 .325 .385 .710 13.07 0.73 0.20 0.37 0.30 0.33
1989 26 988 28.5 4.13 4212 37.99 33.91 4.13 8.62 1.50 0.21 0.73 3.85 0.74 0.34 3.21 5.61 .254 .320 .375 .695 12.72 0.73 0.19 0.39 0.29 0.34
Year Tms #Bat BatAge R/G G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
1988 26 973 28.3 4.14 4200 37.95 33.94 4.14 8.63 1.52 0.20 0.76 3.86 0.79 0.34 3.09 5.56 .254 .318 .378 .696 12.82 0.73 0.22 0.39 0.30 0.33
1987 26 975 28.3 4.72 4210 38.46 34.23 4.72 9.00 1.61 0.21 1.06 4.44 0.85 0.36 3.42 5.96 .263 .331 .415 .747 14.22 0.74 0.20 0.35 0.26 0.31
1986 26 953 28.7 4.41 4206 38.24 34.02 4.41 8.77 1.55 0.20 0.91 4.14 0.79 0.39 3.38 5.87 .258 .326 .395 .721 13.44 0.74 0.19 0.36 0.28 0.31
1985 26 943 28.8 4.33 4206 38.12 34.02 4.33 8.74 1.53 0.23 0.86 4.07 0.74 0.34 3.29 5.34 .257 .323 .391 .714 13.30 0.78 0.17 0.37 0.27 0.32
1984 26 935 28.6 4.26 4210 38.14 34.16 4.26 8.88 1.48 0.23 0.77 3.99 0.72 0.36 3.16 5.34 .260 .323 .385 .708 13.14 0.76 0.16 0.34 0.31 0.30
1983 26 953 28.7 4.31 4218 38.08 34.03 4.31 8.88 1.53 0.24 0.78 4.05 0.79 0.38 3.20 5.15 .261 .325 .389 .714 13.25 0.78 0.17 0.37 0.30 0.33
1982 26 932 28.6 4.30 4214 38.23 34.21 4.30 8.93 1.50 0.23 0.80 4.04 0.75 0.38 3.16 5.04 .261 .324 .389 .713 13.30 0.75 0.16 0.41 0.29 0.31
1981 26 907 28.5 4.00 2788 37.98 33.88 4.00 8.66 1.43 0.24 0.64 3.75 0.72 0.39 3.18 4.75 .256 .320 .369 .689 12.49 0.79 0.17 0.45 0.30 0.32
1980 26 916 28.2 4.29 4210 38.29 34.24 4.29 9.06 1.51 0.26 0.73 4.02 0.78 0.38 3.13 4.80 .265 .326 .388 .714 13.28 0.80 0.16 0.45 0.31 0.34
1979 26 899 28.0 4.46 4198 38.20 34.01 4.46 9.03 1.53 0.25 0.82 4.18 0.71 0.38 3.24 4.77 .265 .330 .397 .727 13.52 0.79 0.18 0.45 0.31 0.33
1978 26 904 27.7 4.10 4204 37.87 33.67 4.10 8.68 1.47 0.24 0.70 3.83 0.71 0.38 3.23 4.77 .258 .323 .379 .702 12.75 0.73 0.18 0.47 0.30 0.32
1977 26 900 27.4 4.47 4206 38.41 34.23 4.47 9.04 1.53 0.28 0.87 4.18 0.72 0.42 3.27 5.16 .264 .329 .401 .730 13.73 0.75 0.19 0.42 0.29 0.31
1976 24 818 27.6 3.99 3878 38.06 33.92 3.99 8.66 1.35 0.25 0.58 3.70 0.79 0.40 3.20 4.83 .255 .320 .361 .681 12.24 0.75 0.18 0.46 0.31 0.30
1975 24 844 27.4 4.21 3868 38.42 33.99 4.21 8.75 1.41 0.23 0.70 3.92 0.65 0.35 3.46 4.98 .258 .327 .374 .701 12.71 0.78 0.20 0.48 0.28 0.35
1974 24 861 27.4 4.12 3890 38.27 34.00 4.12 8.73 1.34 0.22 0.68 3.82 0.64 0.36 3.33 5.01 .257 .324 .369 .693 12.55 0.79 0.20 0.45 0.28 0.35
1973 24 821 27.6 4.21 3886 38.29 34.06 4.21 8.75 1.34 0.20 0.80 3.93 0.52 0.31 3.37 5.24 .257 .325 .379 .704 12.90 0.81 0.19 0.40 0.26 0.35
1972 24 824 27.5 3.69 3718 37.65 33.57 3.69 8.19 1.25 0.20 0.68 3.43 0.49 0.30 3.15 5.57 .244 .311 .354 .664 11.88 0.75 0.20 0.47 0.24 0.37
1971 24 828 27.6 3.89 3876 37.85 33.68 3.89 8.40 1.27 0.21 0.74 3.63 0.46 0.27 3.23 5.41 .249 .317 .365 .682 12.30 0.80 0.21 0.46 0.25 0.36
1970 24 849 27.6 4.34 3888 38.41 33.99 4.34 8.63 1.35 0.24 0.88 4.05 0.49 0.28 3.53 5.75 .254 .326 .385 .711 13.10 0.78 0.21 0.42 0.25 0.38
1969 24 849 27.4 4.07 3892 38.08 33.73 4.07 8.37 1.24 0.22 0.80 3.77 0.48 0.29 3.45 5.77 .248 .320 .369 .689 12.46 0.75 0.23 0.43 0.23 0.37
1968 20 676 27.6 3.42 3250 37.18 33.42 3.42 7.91 1.19 0.21 0.61 3.17 0.47 0.29 2.82 5.89 .237 .299 .340 .639 11.37 0.68 0.24 0.46 0.23 0.38
1967 20 718 27.3 3.77 3240 37.61 33.71 3.77 8.17 1.26 0.24 0.71 3.48 0.42 0.29 2.98 5.99 .242 .306 .357 .664 12.05 0.69 0.23 0.46 0.23 0.40
1966 20 714 27.3 3.99 3230 37.68 33.89 3.99 8.42 1.28 0.25 0.85 3.71 0.45 0.29 2.89 5.82 .249 .310 .376 .686 12.75 0.73 0.21 0.45 0.23 0.34
1965 20 702 27.3 3.99 3246 37.82 33.81 3.99 8.30 1.29 0.24 0.83 3.70 0.45 0.24 3.09 5.94 .246 .311 .372 .683 12.57 0.73 0.22 0.46 0.24 0.35
1964 20 700 27.4 4.04 3252 37.82 33.97 4.04 8.51 1.31 0.23 0.85 3.76 0.36 0.22 2.96 5.91 .250 .313 .378 .690 12.84 0.74 0.21 0.45 0.23 0.31
Year Tms #Bat BatAge R/G G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
1963 20 695 27.6 3.95 3238 37.79 33.91 3.95 8.35 1.27 0.24 0.84 3.68 0.38 0.24 2.96 5.80 .246 .309 .372 .681 12.61 0.70 0.22 0.45 0.24 0.29
1962 20 702 27.9 4.46 3242 38.42 34.14 4.46 8.80 1.33 0.26 0.93 4.18 0.42 0.22 3.37 5.42 .258 .326 .393 .719 13.43 0.77 0.22 0.42 0.26 0.25
1961 18 620 27.9 4.53 2860 38.31 33.93 4.53 8.76 1.39 0.26 0.95 4.22 0.37 0.21 3.46 5.23 .258 .328 .399 .727 13.55 0.78 0.20 0.46 0.27 0.26
1960 16 575 28.2 4.31 2472 38.34 33.99 4.31 8.67 1.39 0.27 0.86 4.03 0.37 0.22 3.39 5.18 .255 .324 .388 .712 13.18 0.77 0.20 0.48 0.28 0.2

Batting average and homer's at all time high's right in the heart of the "steroid era".  I think it's pretty easy to figure out.
12/1/2013 5:22 PM
Posted by The Taint on 12/1/2013 5:01:00 PM (view original):
Well, the six best single season HR totals all occurred right in the heart of the steroid era.....all by guys who have been linked to/found guilty of/admitted to taking roids.
Didn't they raise the mound during the "greenie era"?     And I'm sure you're aware that many of the 'roiders were pitchers. 
12/1/2013 5:35 PM
The "greenie era" started long before 1968.  Did they lower the mound in 2000 or something?


I'm sure pitchers were roiding also....Looking at pitching stats during that time, I think it's safe to assume that hitters had the advantage over pitchers.  The pitching stats during that time are the worst in the history of the game.
12/1/2013 5:37 PM
If pitchers weren't roiding, the average ERA probably would have been over 5.
12/1/2013 6:24 PM
I'll assume you don't understand the purpose of 'roiding.   It's a recovery boost.     PItchers did it because throwing a baseball breaks down the muscle.   They'd be healthier for their next appearance.   Hitters did it to be stronger.    They could upgrade their workouts to remain strong, or get stronger, during the season.  Being stronger is obviously good when striking a baseball.   'roids didn't make pitchers better pitchers.   It just made them the same pitcher more frequently.  No pitchers bulked up like Bonds/McGwire.

Of course, in the case of Clemens, he'd work his legs hard in the off-season and be a better pitcher for it. 
12/1/2013 6:29 PM

All that said, if you've ever tried to work in a bit of a hangover haze, you know a little "boost" makes you sharper.   Whether is something legal like coffee or Red Bull or something a little illegal like amphetamines or cocaine, it turns you into a different person.    One is sluggish and disinterested while the other is active and focused.  Being active and focused is a very good thing when competing.

12/1/2013 6:40 PM
So why do you think the greatest offensive years occurred during the roid era?  If greenies gave greater benefits, shouldn't the greatest offensive seasons been in the 50's, 60's and 70's?
12/1/2013 6:44 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/1/2013 6:24:00 PM (view original):
I'll assume you don't understand the purpose of 'roiding.   It's a recovery boost.     PItchers did it because throwing a baseball breaks down the muscle.   They'd be healthier for their next appearance.   Hitters did it to be stronger.    They could upgrade their workouts to remain strong, or get stronger, during the season.  Being stronger is obviously good when striking a baseball.   'roids didn't make pitchers better pitchers.   It just made them the same pitcher more frequently.  No pitchers bulked up like Bonds/McGwire.

Of course, in the case of Clemens, he'd work his legs hard in the off-season and be a better pitcher for it. 
While I think that steroids helped hitters more, some pitchers who admitted using steroids said that they gained speed on their fastball (a pitcher with a 95 mph fastball is better than one with a 85 mph fastball, everything else being equal).
12/1/2013 6:46 PM
This: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/home-run-rates-in-1998-and-2012/

12/1/2013 6:49 PM
Posted by The Taint on 12/1/2013 5:37:00 PM (view original):
If pitchers weren't roiding, the average ERA probably would have been over 5.
I think you're giving way too much credit to roids. A quick glance at the list of players (both major and minor leaguers) who have been caught reveals a lot of ****** players. Apparently they weren't taking their steroids the right way.
12/1/2013 6:59 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/1/2013 6:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 12/1/2013 5:37:00 PM (view original):
If pitchers weren't roiding, the average ERA probably would have been over 5.
I think you're giving way too much credit to roids. A quick glance at the list of players (both major and minor leaguers) who have been caught reveals a lot of ****** players. Apparently they weren't taking their steroids the right way.
Most of those guys are the ones who have the most to gain.  A difference between a short-lived career of making $50k a year, or a moderate length career making $1.5m a year as a MLB journeyman is quite significant.
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