All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Bernie or Edgar?
12/6/2013 9:29 AM
Posted by nanu on 12/6/2013 12:23:00 AM (view original):
Bernie Williams, a 125 OPS+. 297/.381/.477. Had a sweet 7 year stretch where he had an OPS over .900 and a BA over .300.

Awesome player, and I'd probably want him on the roster more than most DHs out there, perhaps even EM.

That said, Edgar was clearly the superior bat. a 147 OPS+ for his career, which is far greater than Bernie's output. Had a 7 year stretch with OPS above .966, and 5 of those seasons with an over 1.000 OPS. .312/.418/.515 career slash line.


This.

And, by mikes calculation, Martinez was around the 35th best offensive player of all time. By the same calculation, Williams comes in around 185. That's a huge gap. Massive.
12/6/2013 9:41 AM
There have been around 17,000+ players in ML history.  Let's assume half of them are pitchers, so around 8,500 position players.

The difference between #35 and #185, out of a population of 8,500 is not "massive".

It's retarded to insist that it is.
12/6/2013 9:41 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2013 9:29:00 AM (view original):
Posted by nanu on 12/6/2013 12:23:00 AM (view original):
Bernie Williams, a 125 OPS+. 297/.381/.477. Had a sweet 7 year stretch where he had an OPS over .900 and a BA over .300.

Awesome player, and I'd probably want him on the roster more than most DHs out there, perhaps even EM.

That said, Edgar was clearly the superior bat. a 147 OPS+ for his career, which is far greater than Bernie's output. Had a 7 year stretch with OPS above .966, and 5 of those seasons with an over 1.000 OPS. .312/.418/.515 career slash line.


This.

And, by mikes calculation, Martinez was around the 35th best offensive player of all time. By the same calculation, Williams comes in around 185. That's a huge gap. Massive.
Uh, no.  I used YOUR beloved stats to somehow drag that YOU felt he was the 35th best hitter of all-time.   I don't think he was .   He was a fantastic walker.    Best Designated Walker of all-time. 
12/6/2013 9:43 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 12/6/2013 9:41:00 AM (view original):
There have been around 17,000+ players in ML history.  Let's assume half of them are pitchers, so around 8,500 position players.

The difference between #35 and #185, out of a population of 8,500 is not "massive".

It's retarded to insist that it is.
Mike thinks there were only 10-15 great hitters ever (which excludes DiMaggio, Mays , & Aaron). 185 is absolute garbage by that standard.
12/6/2013 9:46 AM
Very good extends pretty deep.   Martinez and Williams fall into that category.
12/6/2013 9:48 AM
And I'm not sure I leave Mays out of great. 
12/6/2013 9:51 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 9:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2013 9:29:00 AM (view original):
Posted by nanu on 12/6/2013 12:23:00 AM (view original):
Bernie Williams, a 125 OPS+. 297/.381/.477. Had a sweet 7 year stretch where he had an OPS over .900 and a BA over .300.

Awesome player, and I'd probably want him on the roster more than most DHs out there, perhaps even EM.

That said, Edgar was clearly the superior bat. a 147 OPS+ for his career, which is far greater than Bernie's output. Had a 7 year stretch with OPS above .966, and 5 of those seasons with an over 1.000 OPS. .312/.418/.515 career slash line.


This.

And, by mikes calculation, Martinez was around the 35th best offensive player of all time. By the same calculation, Williams comes in around 185. That's a huge gap. Massive.
Uh, no.  I used YOUR beloved stats to somehow drag that YOU felt he was the 35th best hitter of all-time.   I don't think he was .   He was a fantastic walker.    Best Designated Walker of all-time. 
He did have a great eye.  But he was also 68th in slugging percentage for his career.  He's got McCovey and Palmeiro and Sheffield right below him. Not too shabby for the "best designated walker." Bernie was 203rd.  Up there with Matt Stairs and Rusty Greer.
12/6/2013 9:51 AM

Off the top of my head:   Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig, Williams, Cobb, Foxx, Bonds, Hornsby, Musial, Mays.  

All great hitters.  I imagine I could add 5 if I looked for them.

12/6/2013 9:53 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2013 9:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 9:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2013 9:29:00 AM (view original):
Posted by nanu on 12/6/2013 12:23:00 AM (view original):
Bernie Williams, a 125 OPS+. 297/.381/.477. Had a sweet 7 year stretch where he had an OPS over .900 and a BA over .300.

Awesome player, and I'd probably want him on the roster more than most DHs out there, perhaps even EM.

That said, Edgar was clearly the superior bat. a 147 OPS+ for his career, which is far greater than Bernie's output. Had a 7 year stretch with OPS above .966, and 5 of those seasons with an over 1.000 OPS. .312/.418/.515 career slash line.


This.

And, by mikes calculation, Martinez was around the 35th best offensive player of all time. By the same calculation, Williams comes in around 185. That's a huge gap. Massive.
Uh, no.  I used YOUR beloved stats to somehow drag that YOU felt he was the 35th best hitter of all-time.   I don't think he was .   He was a fantastic walker.    Best Designated Walker of all-time. 
He did have a great eye.  But he was also 68th in slugging percentage for his career.  He's got McCovey and Palmeiro and Sheffield right below him. Not too shabby for the "best designated walker." Bernie was 203rd.  Up there with Matt Stairs and Rusty Greer.
Yep. Mike conveniently leaves the big difference in slugging out.
12/6/2013 9:53 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2013 9:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 9:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2013 9:29:00 AM (view original):
Posted by nanu on 12/6/2013 12:23:00 AM (view original):
Bernie Williams, a 125 OPS+. 297/.381/.477. Had a sweet 7 year stretch where he had an OPS over .900 and a BA over .300.

Awesome player, and I'd probably want him on the roster more than most DHs out there, perhaps even EM.

That said, Edgar was clearly the superior bat. a 147 OPS+ for his career, which is far greater than Bernie's output. Had a 7 year stretch with OPS above .966, and 5 of those seasons with an over 1.000 OPS. .312/.418/.515 career slash line.


This.

And, by mikes calculation, Martinez was around the 35th best offensive player of all time. By the same calculation, Williams comes in around 185. That's a huge gap. Massive.
Uh, no.  I used YOUR beloved stats to somehow drag that YOU felt he was the 35th best hitter of all-time.   I don't think he was .   He was a fantastic walker.    Best Designated Walker of all-time. 
He did have a great eye.  But he was also 68th in slugging percentage for his career.  He's got McCovey and Palmeiro and Sheffield right below him. Not too shabby for the "best designated walker." Bernie was 203rd.  Up there with Matt Stairs and Rusty Greer.
I prefer to think he was too frozen with fear to swing.

Honestly, I can see him not getting much to hit with Reynolds, O'Brien and Davis hitting around him.    But, with Griffey, A-Rod and Buhner(when he was hitting bombs regularly), I don't think teams were saying "Don't let Martinez beat you."    I think he chose not to swing.   I can't believe he wasn't seeing strikes.
12/6/2013 9:54 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2013 9:53:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2013 9:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 9:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2013 9:29:00 AM (view original):
Posted by nanu on 12/6/2013 12:23:00 AM (view original):
Bernie Williams, a 125 OPS+. 297/.381/.477. Had a sweet 7 year stretch where he had an OPS over .900 and a BA over .300.

Awesome player, and I'd probably want him on the roster more than most DHs out there, perhaps even EM.

That said, Edgar was clearly the superior bat. a 147 OPS+ for his career, which is far greater than Bernie's output. Had a 7 year stretch with OPS above .966, and 5 of those seasons with an over 1.000 OPS. .312/.418/.515 career slash line.


This.

And, by mikes calculation, Martinez was around the 35th best offensive player of all time. By the same calculation, Williams comes in around 185. That's a huge gap. Massive.
Uh, no.  I used YOUR beloved stats to somehow drag that YOU felt he was the 35th best hitter of all-time.   I don't think he was .   He was a fantastic walker.    Best Designated Walker of all-time. 
He did have a great eye.  But he was also 68th in slugging percentage for his career.  He's got McCovey and Palmeiro and Sheffield right below him. Not too shabby for the "best designated walker." Bernie was 203rd.  Up there with Matt Stairs and Rusty Greer.
Yep. Mike conveniently leaves the big difference in slugging out.
Per 700 PA, 6 doubles, 2 homers and 3 less triples.   Hardly a power surge. 
12/6/2013 9:56 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 9:53:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2013 9:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 9:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2013 9:29:00 AM (view original):
Posted by nanu on 12/6/2013 12:23:00 AM (view original):
Bernie Williams, a 125 OPS+. 297/.381/.477. Had a sweet 7 year stretch where he had an OPS over .900 and a BA over .300.

Awesome player, and I'd probably want him on the roster more than most DHs out there, perhaps even EM.

That said, Edgar was clearly the superior bat. a 147 OPS+ for his career, which is far greater than Bernie's output. Had a 7 year stretch with OPS above .966, and 5 of those seasons with an over 1.000 OPS. .312/.418/.515 career slash line.


This.

And, by mikes calculation, Martinez was around the 35th best offensive player of all time. By the same calculation, Williams comes in around 185. That's a huge gap. Massive.
Uh, no.  I used YOUR beloved stats to somehow drag that YOU felt he was the 35th best hitter of all-time.   I don't think he was .   He was a fantastic walker.    Best Designated Walker of all-time. 
He did have a great eye.  But he was also 68th in slugging percentage for his career.  He's got McCovey and Palmeiro and Sheffield right below him. Not too shabby for the "best designated walker." Bernie was 203rd.  Up there with Matt Stairs and Rusty Greer.
I prefer to think he was too frozen with fear to swing.

Honestly, I can see him not getting much to hit with Reynolds, O'Brien and Davis hitting around him.    But, with Griffey, A-Rod and Buhner(when he was hitting bombs regularly), I don't think teams were saying "Don't let Martinez beat you."    I think he chose not to swing.   I can't believe he wasn't seeing strikes.
You're kind of a moron.  Maybe the disconnect is that you don't remember much of Edgar Martinez.
12/6/2013 10:03 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2013 9:56:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 9:53:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2013 9:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 9:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2013 9:29:00 AM (view original):
Posted by nanu on 12/6/2013 12:23:00 AM (view original):
Bernie Williams, a 125 OPS+. 297/.381/.477. Had a sweet 7 year stretch where he had an OPS over .900 and a BA over .300.

Awesome player, and I'd probably want him on the roster more than most DHs out there, perhaps even EM.

That said, Edgar was clearly the superior bat. a 147 OPS+ for his career, which is far greater than Bernie's output. Had a 7 year stretch with OPS above .966, and 5 of those seasons with an over 1.000 OPS. .312/.418/.515 career slash line.


This.

And, by mikes calculation, Martinez was around the 35th best offensive player of all time. By the same calculation, Williams comes in around 185. That's a huge gap. Massive.
Uh, no.  I used YOUR beloved stats to somehow drag that YOU felt he was the 35th best hitter of all-time.   I don't think he was .   He was a fantastic walker.    Best Designated Walker of all-time. 
He did have a great eye.  But he was also 68th in slugging percentage for his career.  He's got McCovey and Palmeiro and Sheffield right below him. Not too shabby for the "best designated walker." Bernie was 203rd.  Up there with Matt Stairs and Rusty Greer.
I prefer to think he was too frozen with fear to swing.

Honestly, I can see him not getting much to hit with Reynolds, O'Brien and Davis hitting around him.    But, with Griffey, A-Rod and Buhner(when he was hitting bombs regularly), I don't think teams were saying "Don't let Martinez beat you."    I think he chose not to swing.   I can't believe he wasn't seeing strikes.
You're kind of a moron.  Maybe the disconnect is that you don't remember much of Edgar Martinez.
You're a dipshit.   I'm obviously being sarcastic but you're too dumb to figure it out.   I'll break it down: 

I prefer to think he was too frozen with fear to swing.   Sarcasm.  He was a very good hitter.   And a professional ballplayer.  Frozen with fear doesn't apply to those two things.

Honestly, I can see him not getting much to hit with Reynolds, O'Brien and Davis hitting around him.    But, with Griffey, A-Rod and Buhner(when he was hitting bombs regularly), I don't think teams were saying "Don't let Martinez beat you."    I think he chose not to swing.   I can't believe he wasn't seeing strikes.   Actual belief.  No need to throw a good pitch to EM with the GREAT Pete O'Brien on deck.   Don't let the best hitter beat you.  However, with the protection on the back end of his career, he was seeing strikes. 
12/6/2013 10:03 AM
Martinez had 653 plate appearances where the count was 3-0.  Bernie had 614.  Bernie also had more plate appearances for his career than Edgar, so Edgar had a higher percentage of 3-0 counts than Bernie did.  
12/6/2013 10:04 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2013 9:56:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 9:53:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/6/2013 9:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/6/2013 9:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/6/2013 9:29:00 AM (view original):
Posted by nanu on 12/6/2013 12:23:00 AM (view original):
Bernie Williams, a 125 OPS+. 297/.381/.477. Had a sweet 7 year stretch where he had an OPS over .900 and a BA over .300.

Awesome player, and I'd probably want him on the roster more than most DHs out there, perhaps even EM.

That said, Edgar was clearly the superior bat. a 147 OPS+ for his career, which is far greater than Bernie's output. Had a 7 year stretch with OPS above .966, and 5 of those seasons with an over 1.000 OPS. .312/.418/.515 career slash line.


This.

And, by mikes calculation, Martinez was around the 35th best offensive player of all time. By the same calculation, Williams comes in around 185. That's a huge gap. Massive.
Uh, no.  I used YOUR beloved stats to somehow drag that YOU felt he was the 35th best hitter of all-time.   I don't think he was .   He was a fantastic walker.    Best Designated Walker of all-time. 
He did have a great eye.  But he was also 68th in slugging percentage for his career.  He's got McCovey and Palmeiro and Sheffield right below him. Not too shabby for the "best designated walker." Bernie was 203rd.  Up there with Matt Stairs and Rusty Greer.
I prefer to think he was too frozen with fear to swing.

Honestly, I can see him not getting much to hit with Reynolds, O'Brien and Davis hitting around him.    But, with Griffey, A-Rod and Buhner(when he was hitting bombs regularly), I don't think teams were saying "Don't let Martinez beat you."    I think he chose not to swing.   I can't believe he wasn't seeing strikes.
You're kind of a moron.  Maybe the disconnect is that you don't remember much of Edgar Martinez.
He's trolling. No one is that stupid accidentally.
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