All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Roy Halladay retiring -- HOF career?
12/9/2013 12:27 PM
Does Halladay belong in the Hall of Fame?

Votes: 37
(Last vote received: 3/1/2014 11:01 AM)
12/9/2013 12:59 PM (edited)
I know he's struggled the past two seasons but this still came as a surprise to me:

espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10108609/roy-halladay-retiring-monday-toronto-blue-jay

12/9/2013 12:29 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hallaro01.shtml

My favorite player of the 21st century.  A horse on the mound.  I'd vote him in.
12/9/2013 12:38 PM
The Halladay case is interesting - I think his lack of innings hurts him a lot here.  If he could have pitched a few more years at a "very good" level I may have voted yes, but he gets a "no" from me.  His peak was great.  But can you lead the league in ERA once?  WHIP more than once?  I need a little more.
12/9/2013 12:42 PM
IP            ERA+        SO          Whip
3432       121           2486       1.15
3256       127           2397       1.22
2749       131           2117       1.19

The three pitchers above are Halladay, Drysdale, and Kevin Brown. I'll let you figure out which is which. I said no to Halladay.
12/9/2013 12:47 PM
8 seasons of 220 or more innings, and his ERA+ those seasons was 157, 145, 143, 121, 152, 159, 167, 163.  

Cy Youngs: 2.  Also finished 2nd twice, 3rd once, and 5th twice.

Career record 203-105 (.659 win %, just ahead of guys like Clemens and Koufax) 

I don't know how many pitchers of this era have done more.
12/9/2013 12:51 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 12/9/2013 12:42:00 PM (view original):
IP            ERA+        SO          Whip
3432       121           2486       1.15
3256       127           2397       1.22
2749       131           2117       1.19

The three pitchers above are Halladay, Drysdale, and Kevin Brown. I'll let you figure out which is which. I said no to Halladay.
I'd argue that Halladay was absolutely fantastic during his peak.  I don't think Brown or Drysdale were more dominant during theirs.  If you're that good for a decent period of time, I think you should get consideration.
12/9/2013 1:04 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/9/2013 12:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 12/9/2013 12:42:00 PM (view original):
IP            ERA+        SO          Whip
3432       121           2486       1.15
3256       127           2397       1.22
2749       131           2117       1.19

The three pitchers above are Halladay, Drysdale, and Kevin Brown. I'll let you figure out which is which. I said no to Halladay.
I'd argue that Halladay was absolutely fantastic during his peak.  I don't think Brown or Drysdale were more dominant during theirs.  If you're that good for a decent period of time, I think you should get consideration.
I think Halladay's and Brown's peaks were comparable. Brown might have been a little better.

Top 5 full season ERA+ with K's:

Brown
215 - 159k
169 - 185k
167 - 216k
164 - 257k
150 - 205k 

Halladay
167 - 219k
163 - 220k
159 - 208k
157 - 168k
152 - 206k

Halladay had a slightly better K rate, but I think Brown was more effective over his peak.

Halladay gets consideration but it wasn't difficult for me to vote no.
12/9/2013 1:09 PM
You know what, that's fair.  I didn't consider "roid era" for Brown.  He pitched in harder "era." I love K/BB ratio also btw, Halladay owned that stat.
12/9/2013 1:12 PM
Not a fan of the guy, but Kevin Brown certainly deserved more consideration than a one-and-done from HOF voters.  He was a surly *****, got mentioned in the Mitchell Report, and was a high-priced free agent flop at the end of this career -- all of which contributed (unfairly, IMO) to him getting just 2.1% of the vote.
12/9/2013 1:16 PM
Halladay=No
12/9/2013 1:18 PM
Halladay doesn't deserve to go in.  He just didn't pitch enough.  He was good enough.  But not enough starts, not enough wins.  He's got fewer wins and innings than Pedro, who some voters have suggested they won't vote for because he didn't pitch and win enough.  And Halladay was great, but nothing like Pedro dominant.
12/9/2013 1:21 PM
Sad. He just lost it. Loved to watch that guy pitch.
12/9/2013 1:28 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 12/9/2013 1:18:00 PM (view original):
Halladay doesn't deserve to go in.  He just didn't pitch enough.  He was good enough.  But not enough starts, not enough wins.  He's got fewer wins and innings than Pedro, who some voters have suggested they won't vote for because he didn't pitch and win enough.  And Halladay was great, but nothing like Pedro dominant.
It would be nice if the discussion would move away from wins. Spot on with the innings, though. If he throws another 600 above average innings, his case would be much stronger. 75 or 80 career WAR would put him up there with Glavine in terms of total value but with a better peak.
12/9/2013 1:39 PM
The point with wins is more that he didn't pitch enough.  Barely 200 wins suggests you weren't around long enough.
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