12/12/2013 9:23 PM
I am looking for a PF that might play a little bit of center. I run a motion offense and a man-to-man defense. I don't know the high-highs and low-highs, so just assume they are all low-highs. I would like to know who you think is the better player.

  Player A Player B
Athleticism 48 55
Speed 19 36
Rebounding 53 41
Defense 40 41
Shot Blocking 51 27
Low-Post 54 63
Perimeter 14 41
Ball Handling 24 27
Passing 39 28
Work Ethic 55 47
Stamina 69 64
Durability 20 42
Free Throw 60.5% 63.1%
GPA 2.7 2.5

12/12/2013 10:38 PM
Player A is better by a wide margin, although you won't be able to use him at center and will only be able to use him at PF if you don't value rebounding that much or have great rebounding elsewhere. He has a chance to become a very good scorer, and while Player B isn't horrible, his ATH won't cut it at the D2 level.
12/12/2013 10:40 PM
I would go with Player B, but I am pretty inexperienced.  I am sure you would prefer advice from someone who actually knows what they are talking about.  :)

Also, if I may hijack very briefly.  I have heard the low-high vs. high-high thing before with regards to potential.  Can someone briefly explain what that means, and how you tell the difference?
12/12/2013 10:47 PM
By doing scouting trips you can learn low or high highs. Here is the link to see if the message you receive is talking about high or low highs, but the scouting trips can also tell you if they are low or average potential in a category.
12/12/2013 10:51 PM
Posted by backboy13 on 12/12/2013 10:38:00 PM (view original):
Player A is better by a wide margin, although you won't be able to use him at center and will only be able to use him at PF if you don't value rebounding that much or have great rebounding elsewhere. He has a chance to become a very good scorer, and while Player B isn't horrible, his ATH won't cut it at the D2 level.
The rebounding is the problem I have with player A. I don't have that great of rebounding PFs or Cs, but my SFs are really good. How important of a roll do BH and P have for a PF in D2?
12/12/2013 10:58 PM
Thank you.
12/13/2013 7:37 AM
Posted by backboy13 on 12/12/2013 10:38:00 PM (view original):
Player A is better by a wide margin, although you won't be able to use him at center and will only be able to use him at PF if you don't value rebounding that much or have great rebounding elsewhere. He has a chance to become a very good scorer, and while Player B isn't horrible, his ATH won't cut it at the D2 level.
+1
12/13/2013 10:19 AM
Posted by carson333 on 12/12/2013 10:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by backboy13 on 12/12/2013 10:38:00 PM (view original):
Player A is better by a wide margin, although you won't be able to use him at center and will only be able to use him at PF if you don't value rebounding that much or have great rebounding elsewhere. He has a chance to become a very good scorer, and while Player B isn't horrible, his ATH won't cut it at the D2 level.
The rebounding is the problem I have with player A. I don't have that great of rebounding PFs or Cs, but my SFs are really good. How important of a roll do BH and P have for a PF in D2?
It all depends on preference, and to a lesser degree, what offense you run. For some people, it doesn't matter at all, although I'd say having BH and P in at least the 30s is helpful for avoiding turnovers at the PF spot.

If you have a guy with high BH, it could help out with his scoring, and high P creates better looks for teammates.

Personally, I look at other things first (ATH, DEF, REB, LP), and if a guy who meets all of my standards there has high BH/P, all the better, but it's not my priority.
12/13/2013 12:51 PM
while Player B isn't horrible, his ATH won't cut it at the D2 level.

I'm not so sure I agree with this.

His athleticism is 55 and red, but I've had several DII big men with 55 or lower ATH who have had fine careers. Obviously it depends upon other ratings, and naturally you'd like the guy to have a higher ATH rating, but it's not terrible.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say you could have a  good DII team with all of your big men around 55-60 in ATH if they have other skills and your other players are also good. I'm not sure if you'd call the team "elite", but if you do it right you should win some NT games with that team no problem.
12/13/2013 1:34 PM
Posted by bistiza on 12/13/2013 12:51:00 PM (view original):
while Player B isn't horrible, his ATH won't cut it at the D2 level.

I'm not so sure I agree with this.

His athleticism is 55 and red, but I've had several DII big men with 55 or lower ATH who have had fine careers. Obviously it depends upon other ratings, and naturally you'd like the guy to have a higher ATH rating, but it's not terrible.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say you could have a  good DII team with all of your big men around 55-60 in ATH if they have other skills and your other players are also good. I'm not sure if you'd call the team "elite", but if you do it right you should win some NT games with that team no problem.
"Won't cut it" is all subjective. To me, if you make the NT, and maybe win a game in the NT every now and then, that isn't cutting it.

I guess it's a bit misleading; you can definitely win games with bigs with 55 ATH, but you're not going to come close to contending unless you have superstars at every other position.
12/13/2013 2:01 PM
Posted by backboy13 on 12/13/2013 1:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bistiza on 12/13/2013 12:51:00 PM (view original):
while Player B isn't horrible, his ATH won't cut it at the D2 level.

I'm not so sure I agree with this.

His athleticism is 55 and red, but I've had several DII big men with 55 or lower ATH who have had fine careers. Obviously it depends upon other ratings, and naturally you'd like the guy to have a higher ATH rating, but it's not terrible.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say you could have a  good DII team with all of your big men around 55-60 in ATH if they have other skills and your other players are also good. I'm not sure if you'd call the team "elite", but if you do it right you should win some NT games with that team no problem.
"Won't cut it" is all subjective. To me, if you make the NT, and maybe win a game in the NT every now and then, that isn't cutting it.

I guess it's a bit misleading; you can definitely win games with bigs with 55 ATH, but you're not going to come close to contending unless you have superstars at every other position.
But the same could be said for having bigs with 50s in REB.

It depends on what you need based on the other players.  If you are already lacking in REB, Player A is not going to help you win games.

12/13/2013 2:52 PM
If Reb and Def are both High/High on "B"... you could argue for him i guess.
If they aren't, it's not even close. "A"
12/13/2013 4:29 PM
While we all have our standards for what is good in terms of ratings at each level of play,  I think a great deal of it depends upon the makeup of the team you have around each individual player. Based upon what some of you are saying, I'd imagine you agree with that.

If you are weak as a team in a particular category, a guy who is high in that area will obviously help with that deficiency while a guy who is low there won't help much. If you have some strengths as a team, getting more guys just like the ones you have won't be as good as getting some diversity, even if the guys you get are talented.

I think I have a bit lower of standards than some coaches in some areas, but only if I have too (we'd all love to have the perfect player at every position but it rarely happens). I know when to pick my battles and when to back off, and I don't have to have a phenomenal player when a great one will do, and sometimes I can even settle for a good player when I can't get a great one.

I say all of that with the caveat that I am NOT among the great coaches in HD by far. I hold my own, but I've still got a ways to go before anyone should assume the way I do things in any way resembles a possible "right" way.

12/13/2013 10:54 PM
I really don't think 55 ATH "cuts it" at D2.  At least not without close to 100 REB and 70+ DEF/SB.  In D3 I would take A, but still look to maybe get both, because if B has enough potential in PER he could become a really interesting swing guy backing up 3-5.  But in D2 I think A is the only viable player, at least unless you're pretty desperate.
12/13/2013 11:13 PM
I would take player A without hesitation. Hopefully you can pair him with another big man who can rebound
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