All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > HOF vote tracker
1/5/2014 4:30 PM
Piazza had to work to be an acceptable option behind the plate.   Thomas just had to keep hitting to be a DH.

Therein lies the difference.
1/5/2014 4:31 PM
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/5/2014 4:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/5/2014 4:16:00 PM (view original):

That would be your opinion.   If a guy's not a "lock", I don't need him in the HOF.

Well, no one has ever gotten 100%, so I guess no one should be in the HOF.
Yeah, that's retarded.   Tell us how Manning and Schaub are the same guy. 

Dumbass.
1/5/2014 4:31 PM
So a guy who doesn't play defense is worse than a guy who plays bad defense?
1/5/2014 4:32 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/5/2014 4:31:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/5/2014 4:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/5/2014 4:16:00 PM (view original):

That would be your opinion.   If a guy's not a "lock", I don't need him in the HOF.

Well, no one has ever gotten 100%, so I guess no one should be in the HOF.
Yeah, that's retarded.   Tell us how Manning and Schaub are the same guy. 

Dumbass.
Man, you even suck at trolling these days.

A lock is 100%. You said only locks get in. Therefore, only guys who get 100% should be in.

What you mean to say is only guys you deem to be a lock should be in. And we both know you talk a lot more **** than you know, especially if you think Piazza is a lock and Thomas is borderline. Thomas is a way easier HOF vote than Piazza.
1/5/2014 4:48 PM
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/5/2014 4:31:00 PM (view original):
So a guy who doesn't play defense is worse than a guy who plays bad defense?
It's tough to explain athletics to someone who hasn't been off the couch in 4 years but I'll try.

You have three athletes.
One is training for powerlifting.
One is training for the 100m.
One is training for the decathlon.

Which one has to either A) work harder/longer or B) train less at a specific skill?

Now you have two baseball players.
One hits.
One hits and fields. 

Apply.
1/5/2014 5:12 PM
So wait...now the HOF is for those with the best work ethic?

And I guarantee I'm 5x as active as your fat ***.
1/5/2014 5:17 PM
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/5/2014 4:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 1/5/2014 4:24:00 PM (view original):
Most people say Piazza called a great game.  His arm was weak, but pitchers liked to pitch to him and he blocked potential wild pitches with the best of them.
I'm not sure who you're talking to, but I haven't heard anyone say Piazza was a good defender.
From Baseball Reference biography page:


Regarded strictly as an offensively-talented catcher, Piazza has been unfairly labeled as defensively challenged because of a poor throwing arm. However, Piazza was generally regarded among players, scouts and managers as calling a great game and among the best at blocking balls in the dirt. Piazza actually has a better lifetime CERA (catchers earned run average), 3.81, than reknowned defensive catcher Mike Matheny (4.38). [1]

1/5/2014 5:19 PM
Catcher's ERA has a lot more to do with the quality of pitchers a guy is catching than the the catcher's defense.
1/5/2014 5:25 PM
Posted by Jtpsops on 1/5/2014 5:13:00 PM (view original):
So wait...now the HOF is for those with the best work ethic?

And I guarantee I'm 5x as active as your fat ***.
As expected, you missed the point.

If you can train for one specific skill, you should become very proficient at it.   If you have to train for two or more, something has to suffer.

I can guarantee you are not.   And you're ridiculously dumb to boot.
1/5/2014 5:25 PM
From Bill James's website

These are the best hitters of all time at their positions and all of these men are in the Hall of Fame.

On the first list, six of the top nine leaders in career Runs Created by a catcher are in the Hall of Fame. The three who are not in the Hall—Piazza, Simmons, and Torre—have another thing in common. They do not have good defensive reputations at the position that is arguably the most important defensive position in the game, catcher.

If it was true that Piazza was not a good defensive catcher, I would be OK with him not getting into the Hall on the first ballot. I still think the best hitting catcher of all time should be in the Hall, but having to wait a few years wouldn’t be so bad. But, all the statistical measures suggest otherwise. In fact, they suggest that Piazza was an above-average defensive catcher.

The one thing that Piazza did not do well defensively was throw out basestealers. He allowed a 76.8 percent stolen base percentage in his career. Other catchers who caught the same pitchers as Piazza threw out 64.5 percent. However, nabbing basestealers is only a part of a catcher’s defensive responsibility and only a small part of Piazza’s overall game. It would be like saying that the best hitting second baseman of all time, Rogers Hornsby, shouldn’t be in the Hall because he didn’t steal a lot of bases in his time.

The most important part of a catcher’s job is handling his pitchers and in this area Piazza was superb. Here is one of the most telling statistics. In his career behind the plate, pitchers had a 3.80 ERA when Piazza was catching. If you look at all the other catchers who caught the same pitchers in the same year that Piazza did, they allowed a 4.34 ERA. That’s a major difference, much more important than a few extra bases stolen. (In fact, Piazza’s catcher ERA of 3.81 includes the run value of any extra stolen bases he allowed.)
1/5/2014 5:29 PM
Craig Wright wrote an excellent article in The Hardball Times Baseball Annual 2009 called "Piazza, Hall of Fame Catcher". He did a detailed sabermetric study that showed that hitters had a .723 OPS with Piazza behind the plate and a .748 OPS with other catchers. This 25-point differential is highly significant. In further studies that we did in The Fielding Bible—Volume II, we found that Piazza saved at least 20 to 70 runs more than an average catcher defensively, depending on the technique that we used.
1/5/2014 5:30 PM
I can keep pulling them up if you want.
1/5/2014 5:55 PM
Posted by The Taint on 1/5/2014 5:30:00 PM (view original):
I can keep pulling them up if you want.
Am in total agreement w/ your pasted/posted articles which back &
support MkPiazza as worthy of the Hall-Of-Fame... The others who
contend otherwise, just do not get "it"...

Although he may not make the needed votes this time around, -he
will surely be on future ballots, & his on-going presence surely will
press future voters to consider his impressive career... 4-sure...

1/5/2014 6:00 PM
Both Piazza and Thomas should be locks for the hall. No need to argue.
1/5/2014 7:51 PM
Posted by jsakicno19 on 1/5/2014 5:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 1/5/2014 5:30:00 PM (view original):
I can keep pulling them up if you want.
Am in total agreement w/ your pasted/posted articles which back &
support MkPiazza as worthy of the Hall-Of-Fame... The others who
contend otherwise, just do not get "it"...

Although he may not make the needed votes this time around, -he
will surely be on future ballots, & his on-going presence surely will
press future voters to consider his impressive career... 4-sure...

I never said Piazza wasn't HOF worthy. I said his defense isn't HOF worthy. He'd get in for his bat, so why can't Thomas get in for his bat?



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