All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Realistic Lengths of Coaching Careers
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1/19/2014 2:10 PM (edited)
If everything was realistic, this game would never work. Now that you've reminded me, we should ask for the dilemmas back.
1/19/2014 2:43 PM
I think one could productively offer folks who have been at a place - even their favorite school - for a long time some sort of incentive to leave and start again elsewhere.  Like some number of free seasons.  I'm a Maryland fan and recently left Maryland looking for a new challenge.....in one world.
1/19/2014 2:54 PM
It wouldn't work to force people to leave. There are enough people just barely hanging on to playing as it is with exception of the diehard coaches who really love the game. A lot of people stay playing simply because they've built the program, like the school and don't want to have to start over.
1/19/2014 3:42 PM (edited)
"or the coach would just die."  I'm 59 and would rather not be reminded of my mortality. LOL  But, if I have to die in WIS, can I at least pick my method?

 I'd like to be killed by a tortoise dropped by an eagle that had mistaken my bald head for a rock suitable for shattering the shell.
1/19/2014 3:58 PM (edited)
80 seasons at a school is not only unrealistic, it makes the game less fun for others, because of the inequality programmed into the game. This SIM has many built-in advantages for high prestige D1 jobs and with guys camped out at a school for 5 real life years or more, it's a tough road to hoe to obtain one of those once-in-a-blue moon opportunities. And so we see guys that choose to stay at D3 or D2 rather than grind it out with a low baseline prestige D1 program for the same price somebody pays for the A+ lifestyle. If baseline prestige was eliminated, while your favorite school might remain locked up for a real life decade, you could have the same experience elsewhere.

The baseline prestige element is unrealistic too. Georgia, Vanderbilt, Hawaii -- these programs have higher prestige than SDSU? In real life college basketball, the "thing" being simulated, programs have next level jumps in prestige where they are not thereafter vulnerable to a prestige topple after one rebuilding season. Gonzaga and San Diego State can recruit with anyone -- we've seen a next level jump with those programs. But this artificial construct of baseline prestige does not allow those jumps to happen in HD. Baseline prestige makes the game easier and more fun for some at the expense of others. It would only make sense if it was necessary to preserve realities (& if that was valued more than an equal gaming experience), but that's not the case.
1/19/2014 4:45 PM
Posted by MyGeneration on 1/19/2014 3:58:00 PM (view original):
80 seasons at a school is not only unrealistic, it makes the game less fun for others, because of the inequality programmed into the game. This SIM has many built-in advantages for high prestige D1 jobs and with guys camped out at a school for 5 real life years or more, it's a tough road to hoe to obtain one of those once-in-a-blue moon opportunities. And so we see guys that choose to stay at D3 or D2 rather than grind it out with a low baseline prestige D1 program for the same price somebody pays for the A+ lifestyle. If baseline prestige was eliminated, while your favorite school might remain locked up for a real life decade, you could have the same experience elsewhere.

The baseline prestige element is unrealistic too. Georgia, Vanderbilt, Hawaii -- these programs have higher prestige than SDSU? In real life college basketball, the "thing" being simulated, programs have next level jumps in prestige where they are not thereafter vulnerable to a prestige topple after one rebuilding season. Gonzaga and San Diego State can recruit with anyone -- we've seen a next level jump with those programs. But this artificial construct of baseline prestige does not allow those jumps to happen in HD. Baseline prestige makes the game easier and more fun for some at the expense of others. It would only make sense if it was necessary to preserve realities (& if that was valued more than an equal gaming experience), but that's not the case.
I'm not touching the length of a career thing. If I ever do get to my destination school you will have to pry it from my cold, dead hands.

The baseline thing - I'm not sure it is implemented as effectively as possible, but it does represent a real thing... Mygen, no offense, but you are nuts if you think Gonzaga and SDSU can recruit with "anyone". Duke, Kansas, UNC, UK, SU, etc would legitimately expect to win 99% of recruiting battles in which they were competing solely with a Gonzaga or SDSU, but that would never happen, because Gonzaga and SDSU aren't on that level, not now, not ever, even at their peak.
1/19/2014 5:32 PM
Posted by alblack56 on 1/19/2014 3:42:00 PM (view original):
"or the coach would just die."  I'm 59 and would rather not be reminded of my mortality. LOL  But, if I have to die in WIS, can I at least pick my method?

 I'd like to be killed by a tortoise dropped by an eagle that had mistaken my bald head for a rock suitable for shattering the shell.
R.I.P aeschylusblack56
1/19/2014 6:05 PM (edited)
Hey Dac- No offense taken, bud. I still disagree; case in point, SDSU' s 4-player recruiting class for next season -- ranked on par with or better than NC, UK, & SU after winning 4 battles over schools I think you would say they should lose 99% of the time (Kansas, Georgetown, UCLA, Arizona, etc.) They won 4 of those 1% battles in the same recruiting season. Point is -- I think the ranks of the blue bloods sometimes increase in real life, but that phenomenon is not reflected in this game.

I bet we agree on this -- baseline prestige is really out of whack in HD when you get past UNC, KU, KY, & Duke. A school like Gonzaga has burst through the prestige ceiling and will never be at a disadvantage against Florida State, Arizona State, St. John's & the like (or at least it is not a foregone conclusion that needs to be programmed-in for sake of reality). The "real thing" of baseline prestige is grossly exaggerated when you get past the top 5 of perennial elites (& whether that number is 5 or 10, the point remains).

Length of career thing: as a fellow coach of the Charlotte 49ers, I get your point and share your feeling. Hopefully, we each have the necessary real life lifespan! Here's to your health,

1/19/2014 6:07 PM
Posted by MyGeneration on 1/19/2014 6:05:00 PM (view original):
Hey Dac- No offense taken, bud. I still disagree; case in point, SDSU' s 4-player recruiting class for next season -- ranked on par with or better than NC, UK, & SU after winning 4 battles over schools I think you would say they should lose 99% of the time (Kansas, Georgetown, UCLA, Arizona, etc.) They won 4 of those 1% battles in the same recruiting season. Point is -- I think the ranks of the blue bloods sometimes increase in real life, but that phenomenon is not reflected in this game.

I bet we agree on this -- baseline prestige is really out of whack in HD when you get past UNC, KU, KY, & Duke. A school like Gonzaga has burst through the prestige ceiling and will never be at a disadvantage against Florida State, Arizona State, St. John's & the like (or at least it is not a foregone conclusion that needs to be programmed-in for sake of reality). The "real thing" of baseline prestige is grossly exaggerated when you get past the top 5 of perennial elites (& whether that number is 5 or 10, the point remains).

Length of career thing: as a fellow coach of the Charlotte 49ers, I get your point and share your feeling. Hopefully, we each have the necessary real life lifespan! Here's to your health,

I gotta admit I am not following RL sports like I used to. I don't think I watched an NFL game all season. I watch my SU hoops team, and I watched the football bowl game and maybe a couple of reg season games, not sure...so my point is you might be right to a degree, esp with SDSU, since I am in Syracuse and have no clue what the hell is going on in San Diego. I will agree that beyond the elite or very nearly elite there is more parity and schools like Gonzaga and SDSU are right in that mix IRL. I'm not sure that an HD coach couldn't get to the same place though (except there are maybe more elites in HD than in RL) if he were good enough. To take an extreme example, look at girt25 at Marshall in CUSA Rupp. Marshall is a C baseline that he's had at A+ for a number of seasons now...
1/19/2014 6:10 PM
Yes, but if one of those HD coaches has a bad run over a couple seasons their prestige plummets in a situation where their high prestige brethren would not suffer the same fate.

Go Charlotte.
1/19/2014 6:11 PM
Posted by MyGeneration on 1/19/2014 6:11:00 PM (view original):
Yes, but if one of those HD coaches has a bad run over a couple seasons their prestige plummets in a situation where their high prestige brethren would not suffer the same fate.

Go Charlotte.
that's true - but I'm not sure that's not the case at a SDSU or even Gonzaga. How's Butler's recruiting class?
1/19/2014 7:45 PM
i agree, if those programs got in a crappy coach and had a few bad seasons, i think they would lose much (but not all) of what they've gained. i still dont buy the number of lofty incoming freshman going to the zags or sdsu is anywhere near that of the top bcs programs. they've broken through, IMO, to more of a middle of the pack BCS status, and are (on the merit of prestige) still disadvantaged to the bigger programs, and i just dont mean the top 5. 

in that sdsu class, im curious, where were those recruits ranked? winning a 3 star over a bigger program is much easier, arguments about getting the spotlight etc. weigh heavily on certain recruits. also, what about the locality? local factors can outweigh prestige for many players.

i think one way the game could be improved is to have prestige be a larger effect on bigger recruits than smaller ones. i can see sdsu going head to head with the kinds of programs you listed for local guys who aren't really the mcdonalds all american types. but for a top 10 guy? rarely a local guy picks the local school (and its usually still big 6) over the elites, who is in the top 10 or so, but it seems to me its at best very rare for that kind of thing to happen with top non-bcs programs.
1/19/2014 10:59 PM (edited)
I could be wrong, but it sounds like you are just speculating without really following real life college basketball programs and their recruiting, because the real life facts run contrary to basically all your stated assumptions. Pope chose SDSU over Kansas. Kell, local kid, chose SDSU over several Big 6 programs. Cheatham -- big fish. All were 4-5-star recruits. UNLV also has recruiting success in real life that eclipses most Big 6 programs. It's ptetty interesting. I'll edit later and add more details. Cheers,
1/19/2014 11:32 PM
So what happens once you "die" in all the worlds? You can't play HD anymore? You're forced to create alts to keep playing? It's bad business to force people out of places they've built. Many people will quit playing altogether I'd guess, which HD can't really afford in case you haven't noticed the mostly empty worlds...
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All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Realistic Lengths of Coaching Careers

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