All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > Gridiron Dynasty > Never thought I'd send this in....
1/20/2014 10:06 PM
ok Im not going to go reseach games and find points of randomness,its random on def every play unless you set it to 100 percent so if a team runs a 50,50 run pass off and you play 50 ,50 run pass def you have a chance at being 100 percent right,100 percent wrong and somewhere in between.You cannot have a game where you get to change your gameplan at halftime and that is it and if you guess wrong punish the team on the majority of plays.Def is set up way to much in favor of playcalling then talent.Ive had games where Ive been leading by 10 to 20 points against a crap sim or human coach and leave things status quo and end up losing when im better then this team at every position by a big margin how can you explain that (this goes for D1A and D1AA).My whole point is Ive experienced it and so have many other coaches losing to crap teams since this engine came out I lost to 3 sims the other season I don't think Ive lost to 3 sims total in V2 and played 100s and 100s of sims.If its not randomness then what is it when teams are constantly losing to other teams that they dominate at every position.I don't mind losing just don't want to ruin a whole season especially when your at D1A losing to a team I play the right def against and kill them at every position ,and have no reason why my team sucked all game long except for upsets happen.PURE CRAP.If people think this game is not as random as V2 when it comes to the outcome of games your nuts.MAKE TALENT MATTER MOST THEN PUT IN GAMEPLANNING AND THE OTHER BELLS AND WHISTLES UNTIL THAT HAPPENS THINGS WILL NEVER CHANGE AND MAKE SENSE FOR MORE THEN A GAME OR 2 AND IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME THEN THATS YOUR CHOICE WE WILL AGREE TO DISAGREE.THIS VERSION DEFINATELY HAS MORE POTENTIAL THEN THE OTHER VERSIONS BUT I DONT SEE ANYTHING DIFFERENT WITH THE RESULTS THATS JUST MY OPINION AND IF YOUR THE COACHES THAT HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED LOSING TO CRAP TEAMS IN THIS VERSION MORE THEN V1 OR V2 THEN SHOOT ME A SITEMAIL AND EXPLAIN THIS GAME TO ME AND SHOW ME YOUR BRILLIANCE.
1/20/2014 10:17 PM
jax...you have officially confused the heck out of me


1/20/2014 10:43 PM
I would love someone to explain this non-random game result to me. Realize I don't have a good team and am playing a sim.  But my offense in the first half has no problem moving the football and scoring... No changes for the second half and almost every possession is three-and-out? I'll argue this game has changed a lot since the Beta, although I still think talent is a big factor. But when someone of the elite coaches in the post talk about walking away, like Bob, that says it all.


http://whatifsports.com/gd/GameResults/BoxScore.aspx?gid=4583375
1/20/2014 10:48 PM
LOL why noah if you have a game where talent doesn't trump everything how can you have a game that is not random.It only makes sense if playcalling is random because we cant control when we call certain plays run pass unless its set at 100 percent how can the outcome of plays and games not be random.If you make talent matter where it should then the other stuff would not I have such an influence on the outcome of games.If teams are close in talent then the other factors would be important in the outcome of games like they should,but when talent counts for so little IMO then the results at the higher levels depend solely on luck of turnovers and playcalling etc and that is not the way to decide games when teams have huge gaps in talent.Maybe im a minority when it comes to understanding this new version and how it functions but to me its set up all wrong because me personally ive lost games I would have never lost before in V1 and V2 and have seen many great coaches lose games to teams that they should beat 100 times in a row so if that is not randomness then what is it.Sometimes you beat the crap teams sometimes you don't WHY
1/21/2014 12:25 AM
Can I know what is random without running 100 games? Could it possibly be some hidden thing? I don't give a crap. All I want is to know why things happen and what to expect. You responded to this first saying it wasn't random. Its gotten worse since it was released and this latest update has been the worst this game has ever had. I'm done speculated and frankly I'm close to stopping caring enough to even be frustrated anymore. Me being frustrated = hope. Me getting past frustration = done.
1/21/2014 6:19 AM
Posted by jaxbaker on 1/20/2014 10:48:00 PM (view original):
LOL why noah if you have a game where talent doesn't trump everything how can you have a game that is not random.It only makes sense if playcalling is random because we cant control when we call certain plays run pass unless its set at 100 percent how can the outcome of plays and games not be random.If you make talent matter where it should then the other stuff would not I have such an influence on the outcome of games.If teams are close in talent then the other factors would be important in the outcome of games like they should,but when talent counts for so little IMO then the results at the higher levels depend solely on luck of turnovers and playcalling etc and that is not the way to decide games when teams have huge gaps in talent.Maybe im a minority when it comes to understanding this new version and how it functions but to me its set up all wrong because me personally ive lost games I would have never lost before in V1 and V2 and have seen many great coaches lose games to teams that they should beat 100 times in a row so if that is not randomness then what is it.Sometimes you beat the crap teams sometimes you don't WHY
Im not questioning or challenging you, im just trying to understand. But, what do you meam by teams that have "huge telent gaps"? What are you measuring to determine the gap? Do you have a game where the "gap" was huge?

Dont get offended. Again im just trying to understand the metric used to measure the gap to help me understand.
1/21/2014 7:08 AM
Is this not a case of we need to know what matters? How are we measuring talent, WIS ratings. Role ratings. Guess Ratings? As chalvorson said I am not challenging anything that anyone has said on this topic, I think we all have valid opinions to try and make this game better. I think frustration has taken hold here, it certainly has with me. Bob said it right in his post, we need to know what is changing and when. Without any kind of test facility we need more information not less so we can adjust and understand. Changes have to be made to get to a point where we are at least satisfied with the game, I think we all would agree, but there must be some explanation as to what and why before it happens. I have not been playing this game all that long, but when veteran coaches are as unhappy with things as they are something is wrong. I still believe introducing V3 was premature but we are where we are and we need to move on, but co-operation is a must if we are to succeed.
1/21/2014 8:49 AM
I'll say this much.  In the 2.0 engine, the concept of choosing a defense that was % run vs pass was probably the right thing to do.  There were no other options to control your defense.  In this engine, the concept of choosing run vs pass % is totally ridiculous.  Let me set my formation, my players, where they line up, who blitzes and how often, and how deep to set my coverage.  THEN LET GAME INSTINCT RULE THE GAME.  If I put 8 in the box and the opponent goes deep and gets a big play...then good for him.  My mistake.   My guys should either react or get beaten.  

Secondly, random may not be the technically correct word.  Perhaps its more "inconsistent and/or unpredictable".  It appears that there are so many "inputs/factors" being used on a given play, that it is impossible to figure out which one or group of factors actually influences a given play.

Lastly, in 2.0 every formation (offense and defense) was effective if you recruited for it.  In 3.0, there are formations that are completely ineffective no matter what you do.  (Not saying 2.0 was better, just pointing out a difference for the sake of argument).
1/21/2014 9:00 AM
Hey Chalvorson hows it going,lets put it this way if you are better at every position then your opposition and you game plan whether the talent be 5pts differenc or ive seen as high as 10 or better (ie-strength,blocking etc 75 to 80 on offence, defensive line 90 strength and  tackling etc plus everywhere)how can you lose maybe 1 in every 100 games not 2 or 3 times a season.If you put a team of pro bowl players on the field with the jacksonville jaguars do they lose,Ill be the first to say I dont want a predictable game and I like upsets but not when 1 team is better everywhere and its happened to me lots of times at D1A and alot of other coaches have said the same thing you should not lose and if you do you should no why thats all im saying.Its funny I lost to maybe 10 crappy sims and humans in 1000s of games and all of a sudden in 3 seasons of V3 Ive lost to maybe 6 sims and 6 or so humans ive never lost too,what did I forget how to play NO and neither did alot of other coaches.I lost alot of games I should have and have no problem with that and have lost some to teams pretty much equal or slighty less in talent and I have no problem with that either but when a 20 year sim can beat you or you have no explaination why your team played great one half and sucked the next that is when I see a problem.I SEE A PROBLEM LOL.IM DONE TALKING ABOUT THIS UNTIL **** CHANGES.
1/21/2014 10:11 AM
Use the "Enter" button on your keyboard.  It comes in handy.
1/21/2014 10:25 AM
Posted by bhazlewood on 1/20/2014 4:18:00 PM (view original):
I'm sick of the random, unannounced changes, and more so with the lack of communication from the developers. I *know* it's a small staff.  I realize they are probably being pulled 100 different ways, and spending time on the forums is less important than fixing the application... but as I've said more times than I can remember, five minutes a day is not too much to ask.

I'm ready to walk away from the game. 
This post should tell WIS where they stand. Bhazlewood, IMO, has defended the game like no other. He has had patience when everyone else was screaming. If he is ready to walk away that should tell them that they are failing. 
1/21/2014 10:21 PM (edited)
Every time I read a thread like this I get the same overall thoughts 

1. No one should ever lose to a SIM. (No matter what effort I put into gameplanning, I should win every time.)

2. This should be Recruiting Dynasty. (My players are X better than his, I should win no matter what)

3. This is too random (aren't random numbers used in every play to determine every outcome?  We're playing a math game online, this is how its supposed to work)

4.  People think Core values matter too much.   (Most times when people say my players are better, they reffer to the 2 or 3 main values that they think matter the most.  The idea that none of the other categories matter isn't right and will lead to dissapointment. Let alone Formation IQ which it was made clear matters much more in this version)

I've played every version of this game for quite a while.   I don't have too much problem seeing cause and effect in my play-by-play analysis.   Studying a roster and finding weaknesses and analizing previous games generally can get you what you need to win.  
1/21/2014 10:46 AM
I may be in the minority but I dont want WIS to give us all the info you guys are wanting. I think knowing exactly how the engine works is bad for the game reason being Im afraid we'll just make it to where e just go to geuss ratings compare the numbers and know the definite outcome of the game. If we know everything it just turns the games into math problems.
1/21/2014 11:03 AM
So what your saying huckslim is talent should not be the most important factor and you have no problem with a sim or crap team beating an established team even if their QB,RB,WR,TE,OL,DL,LB,DB are not as talented but they have a better game plan.That theory to me is the whole issue of whats wrong with this game.Talent is one of the only things we have control over.Playcalling is what ever the sim does that's not a lot of control,sure gameplanning and finding weaknesses is important but that should never be more important then a big talent advantage.All of my teams are well established and I lost last season a game by 35 pts to a 20 year sim that never made the playoffs during those 20 years and I was better at every position and every attribute by a mile.I guess the sim out gameplanned me lol
1/21/2014 11:05 AM
Darn.  I saw the thread title, and thought I had stumbled into Penthouse forum.
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All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > Gridiron Dynasty > Never thought I'd send this in....

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