All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Derek Jeter's Last Stand
3/3/2014 4:41 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 2/20/2014 7:59:00 PM (view original):
But I'll rephrase my earlier question, since you're so "simple": give me one example when a manager writing Ripken's name in the lineup BEFORE THE GAME STARTED was a bad decision for the team given who they had on the bench to take his place.
Virtually every game from game 40 on any season, especially after ~'92ish?  Somehow you've massively oversimplified this in your head.  You're just asking the question "is there some guy on the bench who could be better than Ripken for any one game," to which the answer was almost certainly "no" at least nearly all the time.  But it's not that simple.  Most players perform better when they're getting some rest.  1996 was Cal's last season as primarily a SS.  He hit .278/.341/.466 - just above league average for a hitter.  The backup was Manny Alexander, who barely hit over .100.  But what if, in 154 games, Ripken would have hit .285/.350/.475?  Even with Alexander's .103/.141/.103 line, you come up with just a few less hits, possibly a few less total bases, and a better net OBP.  And in 1995, Ripken OPSed only .745, while Alexander OPSed .617 and Jeff Huson .631.  At that point you don't need to see a very substantial improvement in Ripken's rested performance relative to his streak performance at all to wind up with a better net output for the season.

Of course, that still assumes Ripken would hit better if he took some days off.  I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption, though.  Over the last 7 years of the streak (1992-1998, ages 31-37) Ripken had a net OPS+ of only 96.  In his last 3 seasons as a part-time player from ages 38-40 he had an OPS+ of 99.
This.
3/3/2014 4:42 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 2/20/2014 8:08:00 PM (view original):
Also worth pointing out that between his career year in 1991 and the streak ending at the end of 1998, 1994 was by far Ripken's best season.  Maybe it's a total coincidence that he hit the best in a season shortened by 50 games.  Maybe it's a coincidence that for his career his OPS+ in every month through July is over 100, in August it drops to 95, and in September/October it drops to 90.  But I doubt it.  I think it's pretty clear that, like most other mortal beings, Ripken got tired playing every day over a 162 game schedule.  In fact, in several seasons Ripken's numbers over the last month of the season aren't substantively better than the backup's season stats.  Still probably true even at that point that for any one game Ripken might have been the best guy to send out there, but it seems very hard for me to believe that if he were given a few days off over the course of the season he wouldn't have come up with better numbers to cancel out the difference.
And this.
3/3/2014 4:42 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 3/3/2014 4:40:00 PM (view original):
And that somehow didn't apply to Ripken?
Some players are more durable than others.
3/3/2014 4:50 PM
Been two weeks since I posted those and jtp has been conveniently ignoring them while continuing to scream from his soapbox about how Ripken was better than his backups even when he was tired/hurt and now about how he was contributing value in the field.  Which makes sense if you ignore the fact that Ripken alone could likely produce more value in 156 games than he could in 162 as he got deeper into his 30s.

Also, Ripken added value in the field relative to what?  You think starting Major League shortstops are the best defensive shortstops out there?  What defines Major League players is overwhelmingly based on their offensive contributions.  There are probably literally hundreds of guys in high school, college, the minors, semi-pro leagues, and independent pro leagues with better gloves than guys like Derek Jeter or Jhonny Peralta.  But most of them would hit somewhere between .100 and .150 in the bigs with no pop and not a lot of walks, so they'll never sniff the Major Leagues.  I mean honestly, outside of maybe Andrelton Simmons and Jose Iglesias, none of the best defensive shortstops in the world are probably anywhere near starting in the Major Leagues.  Most of them we haven't heard of and never will.  But they could easily sign a 1-day contract with a Major League team, go 0-4, and contribute more with the glove than Ripken ever could.  Is Ripken going 0-4 still more valuable than Jeter going 0-4?  Probably.  Although Jeter probably saw a lot more pitches in the process, which is generally still more helpful offensively to his teammates.  But it's still a weak argument, because there are guys who could be much more useful than either of them while having an 0fer and playing SS.
3/3/2014 4:53 PM

Here's the deal.

The Yankees made the playoffs every season, except one, with Jeter playing full-time SS.   
The Orioles were contenders for three whole seasons during Ripken's streak.

Truth is, neither "hurt" their team.  The Yankees were winning and the streak kept Baltimore relevant when they weren't.   Neither of those things are bad things.

3/3/2014 5:00 PM

And it's still ultra-retarded to say "Sign Beltre, move Jeter to LF, let A-Rod play SS, move Matsui to 1B and Giambi to full-time DH.  Then, in two seasons when A-Rod can't play SS anymore because he's a bloated 'roider, start moving them around again."

 

3/3/2014 5:36 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/3/2014 5:00:00 PM (view original):

And it's still ultra-retarded to say "Sign Beltre, move Jeter to LF, let A-Rod play SS, move Matsui to 1B and Giambi to full-time DH.  Then, in two seasons when A-Rod can't play SS anymore because he's a bloated 'roider, start moving them around again."

 

According to some, that scenario is far easier to put in place than Cal Ripken sitting out a game here or there throughout the season.
3/3/2014 5:39 PM
Did Cal suffer from ADHD?   If so, sitting still for 3 hours would have been pretty difficult for him.
3/3/2014 5:57 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 3/3/2014 5:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/3/2014 5:00:00 PM (view original):

And it's still ultra-retarded to say "Sign Beltre, move Jeter to LF, let A-Rod play SS, move Matsui to 1B and Giambi to full-time DH.  Then, in two seasons when A-Rod can't play SS anymore because he's a bloated 'roider, start moving them around again."

 

According to some, that scenario is far easier to put in place than Cal Ripken sitting out a game here or there throughout the season.
You only care because Ripken didn't show Gehrig "respect" by breaking one of the dumbest records in baseball.
3/3/2014 6:08 PM
Really, Dr. Freud?  Is that the one and only reason why "I care"?
3/3/2014 6:23 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 2/28/2014 2:27:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/28/2014 2:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/28/2014 2:06:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/28/2014 2:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/28/2014 1:55:00 PM (view original):

I dislike Ripken.

If he had any class, he would have sat after game 2129.

For just one game or forever?
For the next game.
What does that have to do with him having class?
He was clearly in decline at that time.  His continuing to play served one purpose, and one purpose only . . . to break the record.  It became more important than the team.

Had he sat after game 2,129, that would have sent a clear message . . . . "I could break the record, but I choose not to."  What a tremendous gesture of respect that would have been to Lou Gehrig.
Clearly it's one reason.

Ripken was still a very valuable player when he broke the record. No reason to sit just to avoid breaking the record he had worked so hard at.
3/3/2014 6:48 PM
Your profound lack of ability to understand the points of a discussion is amazing.
3/3/2014 6:50 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 3/3/2014 6:48:00 PM (view original):
Your profound lack of ability to understand the points of a discussion is amazing.
Oh, it's profound, is it?
3/3/2014 7:29 PM
I'd say you have a remarkable ability to choose one sentence from a paragraph, or several statements, and latch onto it like a pit bull to a tire while completely ignoring everything else that was said.
3/3/2014 7:49 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 3/3/2014 6:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/3/2014 6:48:00 PM (view original):
Your profound lack of ability to understand the points of a discussion is amazing.
Oh, it's profound, is it?
pro·found
pr?'found,pro-/
adjective
 
  1. 1.
    (of a state, quality, or emotion) very great or intense.
    "profound social changes"
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