All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > long overdue...User Polls
4/26/2014 7:11 AM
This has probably been suggested before, but maybe the best way to square the issues between baseline prestige and firings at DI would be to lower the threshold for firings at those schools which have a high baseline prestige...the turnover at high-value programs would be high (like it is in real life) yet the status of mid-major coaches wouldn't be threatened?
4/26/2014 7:22 AM
Posted by nachopuzzle on 4/26/2014 7:11:00 AM (view original):
This has probably been suggested before, but maybe the best way to square the issues between baseline prestige and firings at DI would be to lower the threshold for firings at those schools which have a high baseline prestige...the turnover at high-value programs would be high (like it is in real life) yet the status of mid-major coaches wouldn't be threatened?
I believe there is merit in this suggestion. 

I wouldn't want real life comparable levels of accountability - I mean sure, everyone would get a chance to coach their dream destination school, but it would only last 3 seasons and you'd be out on your *** too probably...at least gimme an honest chance to fix the last guy's **** ups and try to wrest some recruiting control back from the big-wigs of the conference, whomever they might be. 

Also, while it might be realistic to lump all BCS schools together (which you didn't - I'm not trying to introduce a strawman, just raising an ancillary point), there really ought to be some distinction made for the Alabamas and Providences compared to the likes of Kentucky and Syracuse
4/26/2014 7:24 AM
outstanding np... outstanding.  
lots of good ideas there.

tough to choose in a lot of cases.  
For instance i really like addition of neutral site games in noncon, but not as well as the other three.
4/26/2014 7:28 AM
damn, should we be concerned about what kind of cray cray is happening over at Dictionary.com's examples editor's house
Wrest:
(verb - used with object) 1. to twist or turn; pull, jerk, or force by a violent twist. 2. to take away by force:
to wrest a knife from a child.
4/26/2014 7:36 AM
Posted by oldave on 4/26/2014 7:24:00 AM (view original):
outstanding np... outstanding.  
lots of good ideas there.

tough to choose in a lot of cases.  
For instance i really like addition of neutral site games in noncon, but not as well as the other three.
neutral site non com games would actually be kind of awesome for the tournament I run - eliminate what is right now an unbalanced H/A situation completely...fits in with the whole tournament feel too.
4/26/2014 7:37 AM
im defintiely at the far end of the spectrum on the firing issue... total opposite from current system.  

I would be happy with any change that increased firings,  

but i believe the game would be best served in the long run by a drastic change, espeically at high prestige schools.   there are a limited number of jobs that are more sought-after than the others... and those should carry a warning that you will be canned very quickly if your team doesnt perform.  if you need time to figure out how to create and sustain a winner... do that at lower level schools.   if you get fired out of bad luck (early entry, lost key recruiting battle, injury, etc)... oh well, that happens.  

I would actually favor increased firings a d2 and d3 also.  but again,  only for the more hihgly sought after high prestige schools.  even if it was you who built up that prestige,  if you fall to mediocrity,  you should be out the door.

I know the fear is that WIS will lose users  and money and obviously none of us wants fewer humans in the game.  but i would hope that once folks saw the impact of decreased stagnation, they would accept that firings are a part of the game and take that as a challenge.  and see the upside of the top jobs coming open more often.

ok, enough soapbox.  i know very few agree with my extreme position on this, but i had to vent a little.

  I swear i wish they would fire me from greensboro tark.  what i have done to that once proud program is a crime that shouldnt just involve firing, but also serious jailtime and maybe even a visit to the gallows.  same for some of my failures at syracuse tark in the past.
4/26/2014 7:39 AM
Posted by dacj501 on 4/26/2014 7:28:00 AM (view original):
damn, should we be concerned about what kind of cray cray is happening over at Dictionary.com's examples editor's house
Wrest:
(verb - used with object) 1. to twist or turn; pull, jerk, or force by a violent twist. 2. to take away by force:
to wrest a knife from a child.
that is awesome, dac!   good thing i wasnt drinking milk or it would be coming out my nose right about now.
4/26/2014 7:48 AM
great thread OP.  lots of stuff that will help the game.  if I can add 1 to each category that I always wanted.
Engine - allow me option to intentionally foul when up 3 with under 10 seconds to play
Recruiting - make it so recruits only consider you if you have offered them a scholly
Cosmetic - give a drop down box for campus visits in case I want to do more than 1 per cycle

again, great thread, hope seble is watching
4/26/2014 8:03 AM
Posted by oldave on 4/26/2014 7:37:00 AM (view original):
im defintiely at the far end of the spectrum on the firing issue... total opposite from current system.  

I would be happy with any change that increased firings,  

but i believe the game would be best served in the long run by a drastic change, espeically at high prestige schools.   there are a limited number of jobs that are more sought-after than the others... and those should carry a warning that you will be canned very quickly if your team doesnt perform.  if you need time to figure out how to create and sustain a winner... do that at lower level schools.   if you get fired out of bad luck (early entry, lost key recruiting battle, injury, etc)... oh well, that happens.  

I would actually favor increased firings a d2 and d3 also.  but again,  only for the more hihgly sought after high prestige schools.  even if it was you who built up that prestige,  if you fall to mediocrity,  you should be out the door.

I know the fear is that WIS will lose users  and money and obviously none of us wants fewer humans in the game.  but i would hope that once folks saw the impact of decreased stagnation, they would accept that firings are a part of the game and take that as a challenge.  and see the upside of the top jobs coming open more often.

ok, enough soapbox.  i know very few agree with my extreme position on this, but i had to vent a little.

  I swear i wish they would fire me from greensboro tark.  what i have done to that once proud program is a crime that shouldnt just involve firing, but also serious jailtime and maybe even a visit to the gallows.  same for some of my failures at syracuse tark in the past.
perhaps a lot of this problem would self correct due to your restrictions, but of course when high prestige jobs go sim, unless another high prestige coach wants that job it often goes unfilled long enough to fubar the program badly enough to require a few seasons just to get back into the B+/A- range. 

a - are you talking high baseline prestige or current when you say high prestige jobs should have very should ropes?

b - how long should a coach that takes over a team completely recruited by simai with a A or better baseline but current C+ have to turn things around, and what metric is used to indicate successfully turning it around? Any post - season? Should that too float depending upon prestige? (I know as an SU fan that a PIT bid is not a good season, and if JAB ever went to three in a row he'd be gone, HOF or not).

As someone who has played 230 seasons of HD and never gotten within spitting distance of the SU gig I am on board with increased volatility, but like I said above if I ever do get my hands on the gig gimme an honest chance to turn things around...
4/26/2014 8:05 AM
Posted by milkamania on 4/26/2014 7:48:00 AM (view original):
great thread OP.  lots of stuff that will help the game.  if I can add 1 to each category that I always wanted.
Engine - allow me option to intentionally foul when up 3 with under 10 seconds to play
Recruiting - make it so recruits only consider you if you have offered them a scholly
Cosmetic - give a drop down box for campus visits in case I want to do more than 1 per cycle

again, great thread, hope seble is watching
what is the rationale for #2 if I may ask? There are a number of valuable reasons to have a recruit considering without having an active offer on the table
4/26/2014 8:27 AM
Posted by dacj501 on 4/26/2014 8:03:00 AM (view original):
Posted by oldave on 4/26/2014 7:37:00 AM (view original):
im defintiely at the far end of the spectrum on the firing issue... total opposite from current system.  

I would be happy with any change that increased firings,  

but i believe the game would be best served in the long run by a drastic change, espeically at high prestige schools.   there are a limited number of jobs that are more sought-after than the others... and those should carry a warning that you will be canned very quickly if your team doesnt perform.  if you need time to figure out how to create and sustain a winner... do that at lower level schools.   if you get fired out of bad luck (early entry, lost key recruiting battle, injury, etc)... oh well, that happens.  

I would actually favor increased firings a d2 and d3 also.  but again,  only for the more hihgly sought after high prestige schools.  even if it was you who built up that prestige,  if you fall to mediocrity,  you should be out the door.

I know the fear is that WIS will lose users  and money and obviously none of us wants fewer humans in the game.  but i would hope that once folks saw the impact of decreased stagnation, they would accept that firings are a part of the game and take that as a challenge.  and see the upside of the top jobs coming open more often.

ok, enough soapbox.  i know very few agree with my extreme position on this, but i had to vent a little.

  I swear i wish they would fire me from greensboro tark.  what i have done to that once proud program is a crime that shouldnt just involve firing, but also serious jailtime and maybe even a visit to the gallows.  same for some of my failures at syracuse tark in the past.
perhaps a lot of this problem would self correct due to your restrictions, but of course when high prestige jobs go sim, unless another high prestige coach wants that job it often goes unfilled long enough to fubar the program badly enough to require a few seasons just to get back into the B+/A- range. 

a - are you talking high baseline prestige or current when you say high prestige jobs should have very should ropes?

b - how long should a coach that takes over a team completely recruited by simai with a A or better baseline but current C+ have to turn things around, and what metric is used to indicate successfully turning it around? Any post - season? Should that too float depending upon prestige? (I know as an SU fan that a PIT bid is not a good season, and if JAB ever went to three in a row he'd be gone, HOF or not).

As someone who has played 230 seasons of HD and never gotten within spitting distance of the SU gig I am on board with increased volatility, but like I said above if I ever do get my hands on the gig gimme an honest chance to turn things around...
To throw another layer on my previously related post, and hash-out what I think you're getting at, is that there could logically be crossroads between the issues of increased DI firings, baseline prestige, and lower qualifications for DI jobs. It seems like if schools with high baseline prestige's had much lower thresholds for failure (thus creating higher turnover rates at these posts but not at mid-majors), and the most qualified human coach always gets the available job, then it the vast majority of the problems previously mentioned get dealt with.

As for the question of how long a coach should get if these rules were implemented, I would suggest a guaranteed minimum of 4 or 5 seasons, then after that they must meet some minimum standard.
4/26/2014 8:43 AM
Great job on these nacho -- thanks for putting this up!!
4/26/2014 9:31 AM
Posted by dacj501 on 4/26/2014 8:05:00 AM (view original):
Posted by milkamania on 4/26/2014 7:48:00 AM (view original):
great thread OP.  lots of stuff that will help the game.  if I can add 1 to each category that I always wanted.
Engine - allow me option to intentionally foul when up 3 with under 10 seconds to play
Recruiting - make it so recruits only consider you if you have offered them a scholly
Cosmetic - give a drop down box for campus visits in case I want to do more than 1 per cycle

again, great thread, hope seble is watching
what is the rationale for #2 if I may ask? There are a number of valuable reasons to have a recruit considering without having an active offer on the table
i guess that's true, i just know it frustrates coaches sometimes that you scout a recruit to see if you like him and he starts considering you and there is no way to get him off your list if the evals sucked and he is OK with a redshirt.  there are probably other ways to accomplish the same thing, so any alternative suggestion that gets him off your list works fine
4/26/2014 9:52 AM
Posted by milkamania on 4/26/2014 9:31:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dacj501 on 4/26/2014 8:05:00 AM (view original):
Posted by milkamania on 4/26/2014 7:48:00 AM (view original):
great thread OP.  lots of stuff that will help the game.  if I can add 1 to each category that I always wanted.
Engine - allow me option to intentionally foul when up 3 with under 10 seconds to play
Recruiting - make it so recruits only consider you if you have offered them a scholly
Cosmetic - give a drop down box for campus visits in case I want to do more than 1 per cycle

again, great thread, hope seble is watching
what is the rationale for #2 if I may ask? There are a number of valuable reasons to have a recruit considering without having an active offer on the table
i guess that's true, i just know it frustrates coaches sometimes that you scout a recruit to see if you like him and he starts considering you and there is no way to get him off your list if the evals sucked and he is OK with a redshirt.  there are probably other ways to accomplish the same thing, so any alternative suggestion that gets him off your list works fine
ok, I am 100% down with a "tell the player to go **** himself" button - extend that to be usable during the regular season when the 4th guy on your depth chart at SF ******* coz he's only getting 7 minutes instead of the 8 or 9 like he expected
4/26/2014 10:03 AM
This thread=greatest thread.

Thanks for putting it together, NP.
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