All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > Why do Low-Cappers Struggle to fill?
4/26/2014 5:08 PM
I have a bunch of thoughts.

*Maybe it's too hard. Too much work to shuffle a new lineup every day. 

*To be competitive, minor league use becomes important but this seems to sway a team based on the random players you've been given. Does this take luck weigh too heavy and take away from the importance of drafting?

*I don't get to draft all my favorites because I don't have enough money?

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

There are some great low-cap themes right now that just don't fill in a timely fashion. One of my thoughts is the formation of a Low-Cap group to post theme ideas and theme leagues that will help them fill more quickly. Maybe I'm too impantent.
4/26/2014 5:35 PM (edited)
Your first thought sounds about right. people tried it once and didn't do very well, probably struggled with fatigue and found it annoying. Instead of learning different strategies they give up and go back to what they're comfortable with.

I disagree with the second thought, AAA makes it easier and I'd think that helps with signups. There is randomness in every aspect of the game and we're always playing the odds. The biggest mistake I see at lowcaps with AAA is not planning to use them to the max. 200 free PA is almost always worth it at lowcap, no matter how bad they are.
4/26/2014 7:01 PM (edited)
rbow, you misunderstand me. I'm posing "potential thoughts folks have". I like AAA too. I wish it was maybe even worse, as sometimes folks do get some AAA folks that baT .300 or have a descent WHIP. But hey, that happens in the real game too. 

I love low-caps. I wish more did.
4/27/2014 7:51 AM
i started trying low-cap leagues recently i have a 60 and 70mil team they are much more work than a 80mil but i like it alot i'm wondering is there a way to send out sitemails to owners as they get more experienced. say for instance when a owner reaches pro or veteran status a sitemail would be automatically be sent to that owner encouraging them to try a new challenge and extolling the virtues of the low cap leagues, i also think that in the theme classifies if the commish included in the ad that help in understanding and putting a team together for any new owners might encourage new owners to sign up. i know most owners i have come across have been very willing to help me a couple come to mind CWILLIS802,PFATTKATT,CRAZYJOE02,FRAZZMAN80 just to name a few but i had to approach them if the offer was put in the ad it might help. just a few thoughts from my own experience
4/27/2014 8:07 AM
rjj,.. Biglenr often does this within the low-cap threads. I keep saying I'm going to form a "Low-Cap Soceity" to help folks become aware of new leagues and advice on those wanting to get involved, but I haven't had the time of late. Maybe I'll get the ball rolling on your idea in the classifieds and see if the folks you listed above plus biglenr, myself could do some posting on advice. Maybe that'll help a bit. Good thoughts.
4/27/2014 8:30 AM
my apoligies to biglenr and razorclams for not mentioning them in my previous post they helped me in those low cap leagues i am in, the other guys i mentioned helped in the opens and progs i have done in the past, and just a sidenote it has been almost 5 months since pfattkatt has passed but what a great guy i talked to him on the phone multiple times in the last 3 months of his life we had great conversations about life and baseball and how it intertwined in our lives
4/27/2014 8:04 PM
I had no idea pfattkatt passed away. How sad. He was in a bunch of small-caps that I've played over the years. 
4/28/2014 5:11 AM
I used to play in quite a few low cap leagues a few years ago.  I remember waiting for a TOC to start for about a year and a half in a $20M league.  They were fun but the lack of interest and extreme time to fill kind of turned me off.  Its funny to me how many players refer to $100M as low cap. 
4/28/2014 9:06 AM
I guess I should have defined low-cap. Personally, I would say anything under 80mil. Mensu, we need you and others to get back in. I've got a great league forming right now and need only 4-more teams. Check it out in the forums under "Manage Ur Tail Off". MLB108824
4/28/2014 10:12 AM
Posted by mensu1954 on 4/28/2014 5:11:00 AM (view original):
I used to play in quite a few low cap leagues a few years ago.  I remember waiting for a TOC to start for about a year and a half in a $20M league.  They were fun but the lack of interest and extreme time to fill kind of turned me off.  Its funny to me how many players refer to $100M as low cap. 

Read the last line posted by mensu and you'll understand. For some reason, a majority of owners on this site prefer to play with the "Best of the Best" and take the "What if" aspect of the site to heart. If you look through the classifieds, you will see tons of leagues at $100 million or higher and very few "low caps" at less than $80.

I think that it's a combination of star power + not having to manage much + ease of drafting a team that makes the high cap leagues more played than the low cap versions. It's a challenge to draft a good low cap team and another challenge to manage it. You can't have everything with a low cap team...you have to pick and choose on your strategies and you have to have some common knowledge of baseball to make it work out because you can't have an All-Star at every position or on the mound.

To be honest, I don't get the love for higher cap leagues. The lower the cap, the more realistic the stats of the players are going to (typically) be. I read the forums a lot and see so many "Why is my pitcher getting shelled or why is my hitter terrible?" threads, and the one thing that most of them have in common is that they are in high cap leagues (and small sample size).

I don't think WIS does low caps a favor by the current setup of Open Leagues. Most people cut their teeth at $80 million, get hammered by cookie/fatigue teams and decide that the reason they lost was they didn't have enough "All-Star level players", so they tend to trend to the higher caps so they can draft "even better players". What they don't realize is that at $80 million, you already have an All-Star team as historical teams are much less than $80 mil.

If you are looking for realism, than I feel that $60 million is a sweet spot.

4/28/2014 10:21 AM
IMO
- Low cap is $70m and below.  The sim price structure is geared for $80m open leagues... Anything significantly below that is "low cap". 

Why low caps struggle
- It's uncomfortable
     - Every team has weaknesses... You have to accept that your team can't be strong in all areas.
     -  There's some unpredictability based on your opponents in a league... It's how your strengths and weaknesses match up against the other owners. 
    -   Which means there aren't many "low cap cookies" or a "low cap cookie" team.  You can't just copy a top 10 team and expect to win
    -    You have to search for new players... A $12m 1908 Joss is a nightmare to build a team around in a $60m league. 

It's easy to pick great players in most leagues.... In low caps, your goals are to pick 'above average values".  Very different, really, than just picking the best. 

But mainly.... It's a testicular problem.   Too many owners lack the cojones to go out on their own and make their own decisions.  Those of us with big, brass pairs are in most of the low cap leagues.
4/29/2014 10:36 PM
Low cap leagues rock if you like realism. I play in as many $60M and $40M leagues as I can find. IMO, they are more like putting together RL teams.

If you look at the values of each RL team, there are only 5 teams with a salary greater than $90M with the '27 Yankees leading the way at $96M (I am not counting the 1890 Philadelphia Athletics and their $120M salary as it is $30M more than the next team). The lowest team is at $37M. Most RL teams fall between $50 and $80M and the typical average team salary is under $70M in most seasons (see below).

Year Teams Total payroll (M's) Avg payroll (M's) Highest payroll (M's) Lowest payroll (M's)
1972 24 $1,647 $68.6 $81 $54
1982 26 $1,756 $67.5 $79 $55
1992 26 $1,770 $68.1 $76 $58
2002 30 $2,063 $68.8 $83 $56
2012 30 $2,012 $67.1 $75 $54

So really, $80M teams are closer to all star/WS teams whereas, low caps as defined here, are more like RL, and true low cap leagues, below $50M, are few and far between. 

It seems that all-star teams are more popular here than getting close to RL performances. I find that funny with as many complaints as I see about players not performing to their RL statistics. If owners truly wanted RL, they would play in the $60M leagues.


4/30/2014 4:41 PM
Here's an Idea:
Have a league filled with 12 experienced low cap owners and have them recruit an owner who has never been in a low cap league.  The experienced owners go in the National League the novices in the American league.
5/2/2014 12:46 PM
Posted by mlent on 4/30/2014 4:41:00 PM (view original):
Here's an Idea:
Have a league filled with 12 experienced low cap owners and have them recruit an owner who has never been in a low cap league.  The experienced owners go in the National League the novices in the American league.
Gotta say; The Dilligafs have never played in a 'low cap league'...Of course, we've also never played in a $80mil Open league...
our comfort zone is $110-140m...

And w/ that all said; We would be interested in the idea floated above...Iffn someone gets it rolling, count us in as one of the low-cap 'novices'...


DBP
5/2/2014 1:04 PM
I believe low caps are hard to fill for many reasons.  Many owners are not comfortable with them. It is so much more difficult to build a team that you feel good about competing.  There are always holes in staff and position players.  fatigue is a concern.  With that said I have found it to be quite fun.  You truly have to manage each game.
As long as your team is competitive the season is a sweet journey.  My suggestion is find an era that you like.  Find a group favorite players to use.  Then you simply enjoy
the trip with players you like and a time you enjoyed.  I play my Phillies of the 60s a lot.  They are not always good but to see Allen, Callison, Bunning, Short and so many more in daily box scores is a cheap trip back in time.  It is worth a few bucks here and there.

I drifted a bit.  I just believe many owners want to win.  It can be easier with cookies.  The low caps are just harder and very unpredictable.
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