6/25/2014 3:56 PM
The President is a public service job.   Perhaps they shouldn't even be paid. 
6/25/2014 3:59 PM
While I 100% agree that many executives make much more money than they're worth to the company, if I run a business and I'm making a few mil every year, or if my right-hand men are making a few mil a year, and you force me to use the 10:1 rule, I'm very much considering moving my operations to Canada or the UK.  Only makes sense, right?  Am I missing something? 
6/25/2014 4:02 PM
Wouldn't Dimon also be set for life working just a few years as CEO making a couple million a year? There's no way he's worth 50x the President and 400x a middle class worker.
6/25/2014 4:03 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 6/25/2014 3:59:00 PM (view original):
While I 100% agree that many executives make much more money than they're worth to the company, if I run a business and I'm making a few mil every year, or if my right-hand men are making a few mil a year, and you force me to use the 10:1 rule, I'm very much considering moving my operations to Canada or the UK.  Only makes sense, right?  Am I missing something? 
Why? This doesn't apply to ownership. Just salary.
6/25/2014 4:07 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2014 4:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 6/25/2014 3:59:00 PM (view original):
While I 100% agree that many executives make much more money than they're worth to the company, if I run a business and I'm making a few mil every year, or if my right-hand men are making a few mil a year, and you force me to use the 10:1 rule, I'm very much considering moving my operations to Canada or the UK.  Only makes sense, right?  Am I missing something? 
Why? This doesn't apply to ownership. Just salary.
If I run a business making $5 mil a year, and you tell me that I have to reduce my salary or pay my employees $500K a year, I'm going to look at all my options, which includes moving to Toronto and seeing if I can work there. Right? I'm sure many people would.

Or maybe I actually value the top-level people I work with, who make a couple million a year.  If I reduce their salaries, they may look for new employment.  

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of the government telling people how to pay their employees to this extent.  
6/25/2014 4:12 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2014 4:02:00 PM (view original):
Wouldn't Dimon also be set for life working just a few years as CEO making a couple million a year? There's no way he's worth 50x the President and 400x a middle class worker.
So, Dimon should take $0 for his salary, and take all of his compensation in stock.

Then, he can pay his employees $0.
6/25/2014 4:14 PM
OH!!!!  COOL!!!!!   First we determined the value of the dollar to every person on earth and now we're determining the value of people!!!


Well, BL is determining value of people.  Not sure anyone else has jumped on that crazy train just yet.
6/25/2014 4:16 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2014 4:02:00 PM (view original):
Wouldn't Dimon also be set for life working just a few years as CEO making a couple million a year? There's no way he's worth 50x the President and 400x a middle class worker.
Not many people have Dimon's skill set. Just like not many have LeBron James or Michael Jordan's skill set. Lots of people can stand on an assembly line or manage a Verizon wireless store..... Not many can handle the complexity of running a multi billion, 255,000 employee, company. They get paid what they are worth.
6/25/2014 4:18 PM
I can actually tell you that I've worked at a place where the CEO and other C-level executives were considered (probably correctly) 10x more valuable to business operations than I was.
6/25/2014 4:24 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 6/25/2014 4:19:00 PM (view original):
I can actually tell you that I've worked at a place where the CEO and other C-level executives were considered (probably correctly) 10x more valuable to business operations than I was.
It's silly to pretend that isn't true almost everywhere.

At a restaurant, you've got a guy who can wash dishes.   And a chef.    Which one brings in business?
At a business, you've got a person who can answer phones and file.   And an executive that oversees sales and operations.   Which one keeps the business running?

It's more than silly, it's stupid, to pretend that one employee isn't easily replaceable while another leaving wouldn't crush short-term business until he/she was replaced.
6/25/2014 4:32 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 6/25/2014 4:07:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2014 4:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 6/25/2014 3:59:00 PM (view original):
While I 100% agree that many executives make much more money than they're worth to the company, if I run a business and I'm making a few mil every year, or if my right-hand men are making a few mil a year, and you force me to use the 10:1 rule, I'm very much considering moving my operations to Canada or the UK.  Only makes sense, right?  Am I missing something? 
Why? This doesn't apply to ownership. Just salary.
If I run a business making $5 mil a year, and you tell me that I have to reduce my salary or pay my employees $500K a year, I'm going to look at all my options, which includes moving to Toronto and seeing if I can work there. Right? I'm sure many people would.

Or maybe I actually value the top-level people I work with, who make a couple million a year.  If I reduce their salaries, they may look for new employment.  

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of the government telling people how to pay their employees to this extent.  
If you own the company you wouldn't set your salary at $5 million. You'd do what everyone does and set a normal salary with ownership distributions in top. This wouldn't affect you.
6/25/2014 4:35 PM
Posted by moy23 on 6/25/2014 4:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2014 4:02:00 PM (view original):
Wouldn't Dimon also be set for life working just a few years as CEO making a couple million a year? There's no way he's worth 50x the President and 400x a middle class worker.
Not many people have Dimon's skill set. Just like not many have LeBron James or Michael Jordan's skill set. Lots of people can stand on an assembly line or manage a Verizon wireless store..... Not many can handle the complexity of running a multi billion, 255,000 employee, company. They get paid what they are worth.
It's not market based worth. It's a distortion of the market. CEO salaries are set by boards made up of other CEOs. It's completely self serving and has no tie to their value. I'm sure you've seen the companies that lose a ton if money, see their stock drop, and still pay the CEO millions.

It's insane.
6/25/2014 4:37 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 6/25/2014 4:19:00 PM (view original):
I can actually tell you that I've worked at a place where the CEO and other C-level executives were considered (probably correctly) 10x more valuable to business operations than I was.
Sure. We're they 1,000x more valuable than an entry level worker?

In the 70's, the average CEO pay was 8x and entry level worker in their business. Are CEOs exponentially more valuable now?
6/25/2014 4:39 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2014 4:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 6/25/2014 4:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/25/2014 4:02:00 PM (view original):
Wouldn't Dimon also be set for life working just a few years as CEO making a couple million a year? There's no way he's worth 50x the President and 400x a middle class worker.
Not many people have Dimon's skill set. Just like not many have LeBron James or Michael Jordan's skill set. Lots of people can stand on an assembly line or manage a Verizon wireless store..... Not many can handle the complexity of running a multi billion, 255,000 employee, company. They get paid what they are worth.
It's not market based worth. It's a distortion of the market. CEO salaries are set by boards made up of other CEOs. It's completely self serving and has no tie to their value. I'm sure you've seen the companies that lose a ton if money, see their stock drop, and still pay the CEO millions.

It's insane.
But that's because it was an agreed upon contract - a golden umbrella. Are you suggesting contracts should not be honored?
6/25/2014 4:39 PM
What about the CFOs and CMOs who make a million every year?  You bet your *** they're 20x more valuable then many employees, especially the bigger businesses. Many employees make $40K a year who are basically replacement-level employees.  If I tell my CFO that he has to take a 50% paycut to comply with a new law, because there's no way in hell I'm raising salaries for my 22-year old morons, he's not going to be happy.

Are you honestly this comfortable telling businesses how to distribute salaries? 
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