All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Changing player positions
5/23/2014 4:51 PM
Posted by nachopuzzle on 5/23/2014 2:32:00 PM (view original):
The more I hear people half-assedly complain about seeing 12 SF on a roster, the more it makes me wish there was a world for hardcore users where there were only 3 position listings (guard, forward, center) and the only player ratings a coach has access to are there own players.

Now that would be interesting, it would take evaluating your opponents to a whole new level.
hmmm that would actually be really interesting to not see opponents player ratings.   i dont see that ever happening and probably alot of folks hate the idea.... but i , for one,  think it is a very intriguing idea
5/23/2014 4:56 PM
Posted by nachopuzzle on 5/23/2014 3:06:00 PM (view original):
Posted by trobone on 5/23/2014 2:39:00 PM (view original):
I think it'd confuse a lot of newer players, especially if it's simply cosmetic and is mostly going to be used to game awards and confuse opponants.

What about having it where the owner can see the new positions (for organization purposes, such as "what positions do I need to recruit for in 2 seasons?") but other teams see the original positions?
Wow, "mostly going to be used to game awards and confuse opponents"...two pretty BIG assumptions.

Especially, since others have laid out specific reasons why this would not only be purely cosmetic, but could also benefit new users by enhancing the "player roles" feature...and not to mention that seble actually liked the notion of all coaches being able to toggle back & forth between players' original and designated positions.
?I'll be more specific, they're the only two uses I can see myself using for this feature. 

I see it as a cosmetic change, one that might help with roster organization and helping players get award recognition (i play a PG at SF sometimes, he shouldn't compete against PGs for awards)

But the fact is most new users don't use the player roles feature, and I can't seem them somehow starting to use that in combo with changing positions either. 

I'm not going to argue if its implemented, while I won't use it for any other reason than to organize my roster, confuse opponants and game awards, I'm not against it, but there are other features I'd like to see first. 
5/23/2014 5:02 PM
Posted by jetwildcat on 5/23/2014 3:52:00 PM (view original):
Also, from an HD marketing standpoint, I think "12 SF's on a team of not-actually SF's...would look really stupid" is a 100% legitimate complaint. REGARDLESS of whether it should impact proper gameplanning.

Why list official positions at all, if you don't care about 12 SF teams?

Why not remove every cosmetic aspect of the game?
As far as your marketing concerns go, just look at the last post on page six...I'm not putting words in anybody's mouth, but it seems like there is a relatively easy solution to that problem. Besides, as also previously mentioned in the thread, there are other possible ways to help prevent a team from having 12 SFs.

As to your other point, "Why not remove every cosmetic aspect of the game?"...well, let me put it in words you can relate to, "from an HD marketing standpoint, it would look really stupid".
5/23/2014 5:13 PM
Posted by oldave on 5/23/2014 4:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by nachopuzzle on 5/23/2014 2:32:00 PM (view original):
The more I hear people half-assedly complain about seeing 12 SF on a roster, the more it makes me wish there was a world for hardcore users where there were only 3 position listings (guard, forward, center) and the only player ratings a coach has access to are there own players.

Now that would be interesting, it would take evaluating your opponents to a whole new level.
hmmm that would actually be really interesting to not see opponents player ratings.   i dont see that ever happening and probably alot of folks hate the idea.... but i , for one,  think it is a very intriguing idea
Yeah, that is the definition of a pipe dream. And kinda like oysters...an acquired taste, haha.
5/23/2014 5:15 PM
I won't use it for any other reason than to organize my roster, confuse opponants and game awards
Organize roster: Sure

Confuse opponents: Not anyone who wasn't confused to start with, and you should be beating those guys by 40.  Any coach with a clue will not be fazed, and probably won't even notice that you've changed the positions in the first place.

Game awards: Really?  Or do you mean, have your PG eligible for an award at SF, where you're playing him?  That's not "gaming" anything.
5/23/2014 5:40 PM
Posted by llamanunts on 5/23/2014 5:15:00 PM (view original):
I won't use it for any other reason than to organize my roster, confuse opponants and game awards
Organize roster: Sure

Confuse opponents: Not anyone who wasn't confused to start with, and you should be beating those guys by 40.  Any coach with a clue will not be fazed, and probably won't even notice that you've changed the positions in the first place.

Game awards: Really?  Or do you mean, have your PG eligible for an award at SF, where you're playing him?  That's not "gaming" anything.
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5/23/2014 6:26 PM
I like this update, seble. You've been working hard to bring all these updates to HD recently and I really appreciate it a lot. I had a SG (listed as PG) in DIII Rupp last season, thought there was potential for him to get MVP or first team, but ended up an honorable mention. I bet if I could have listed him as a SG, he would have ended up higher, the SG spot seemed less competitive and that's where he fit anyway. He was pretty good defensively too. Maybe he wouldn't have won any awards there either- now I can be certain for future players.

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?&pid=2582401

Can't wait to see what you're doing with the recruiting system! Thanks for thinking of us :)
5/23/2014 6:26 PM
Posted by nachopuzzle on 5/23/2014 5:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jetwildcat on 5/23/2014 3:52:00 PM (view original):
Also, from an HD marketing standpoint, I think "12 SF's on a team of not-actually SF's...would look really stupid" is a 100% legitimate complaint. REGARDLESS of whether it should impact proper gameplanning.

Why list official positions at all, if you don't care about 12 SF teams?

Why not remove every cosmetic aspect of the game?
As far as your marketing concerns go, just look at the last post on page six...I'm not putting words in anybody's mouth, but it seems like there is a relatively easy solution to that problem. Besides, as also previously mentioned in the thread, there are other possible ways to help prevent a team from having 12 SFs.

As to your other point, "Why not remove every cosmetic aspect of the game?"...well, let me put it in words you can relate to, "from an HD marketing standpoint, it would look really stupid".
Which is exactly my point...
5/23/2014 6:41 PM
Posted by jetwildcat on 5/22/2014 2:22:00 PM (view original):
While looking at listed positions is not the most "effective" way to gameplan, not every HD customer should be required to work the same way. I'm willing to sacrifice some game planning effectiveness to save time, for example.

Also remember that we now have ratings calculations that people are using, which are position based.

Just because something is mostly cosmetic doesn't mean it's useless. The cosmetic parts of the game make it even more fun, especially for new players, whom aren't blind to the same cosmetic things we've all learned to ignore over thousands of hours.
Okay...because after this I figured we were close to the same page, so obviously I misunderstood you, my bad.
5/24/2014 12:25 PM
I like Nacho's idea of having only 3 positional classifications: G/F/C. His idea of not being able to see opponents' player ratings is good as well, though I'd add a caveat: there should be a "scout" function, that would give coaches a general idea on who the best athletes, defenders, etc. were on the team.
5/24/2014 11:51 PM
Position is not entirely cosmetic.  The position distribution of a team determines the choice and intensity of sim recruiting.  If a coach set all 12 players to center and then left a team, that team could have brutally bad sim recruiting in the next couple of seasons.  So original position (which seble has said would be retained) would have to be used for this and any other non-cosmetic functions of position. 

seble, are there any other actual gameplay functions that are affected by position?  For example, do awards affect the early entry decision?  If so, coaches could used positional changes to game EE unless original position was still used for awards.
5/25/2014 8:29 AM
i think i saw seble say somewhere a few pages back that position does not affect redshirt?   is that right?  i always thought it did.  i thought a kid was more likely to accpet rs if he was 3rd or 4th on depth chart at his position according to overall rating, as opposed to being highest rated at his position or the only one at his position.

where did i get that idea?  i dont think i just made it up.  but maybe i did
5/25/2014 10:22 AM
So with the "toggle" button idea described on page 6, where coaches can click on a button to see the players' original position, that should take away from a coach's motivation to list 12 players as SF (which wouldn't do anything to bother more experienced coaches anyway). With that really good idea, I'm completely in favor of allowing us to list the positions. 

I think more customizability = a more fun game, even if it's cosmetic. 
5/25/2014 10:30 AM
Posted by oldave on 5/25/2014 8:29:00 AM (view original):
i think i saw seble say somewhere a few pages back that position does not affect redshirt?   is that right?  i always thought it did.  i thought a kid was more likely to accpet rs if he was 3rd or 4th on depth chart at his position according to overall rating, as opposed to being highest rated at his position or the only one at his position.

where did i get that idea?  i dont think i just made it up.  but maybe i did
I dont think redshirt depends on what a coach actually puts on his depth chart (I know that is NOT what you were talking about, just covering it)

And I dont think is depth by cosmetic position

But I do think that it is where a player ranks on the team in terms of overall ability and I think that takes into a account ability to play a position - so that if there are four guys with 90s in the guard core skills a fifth guy whose best role is a guard and whose skills are at 80 in those cores MAY be more likely to take a redshirt
5/25/2014 11:24 AM
Posted by oldave on 5/25/2014 8:29:00 AM (view original):
i think i saw seble say somewhere a few pages back that position does not affect redshirt?   is that right?  i always thought it did.  i thought a kid was more likely to accpet rs if he was 3rd or 4th on depth chart at his position according to overall rating, as opposed to being highest rated at his position or the only one at his position.

where did i get that idea?  i dont think i just made it up.  but maybe i did
it does this, but not by position. My guess is that it runs all 5 player roles for the whole roster and sees where the player compares in his highest "position" as the part of the process to represent how deep on the bench they are. So it is a factor, but position doesn't matter
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