All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Small Hall of Fame
8/1/2014 11:48 AM
Beltre > Jeter.  If you want Jeter, you have to let Beltre in.
8/1/2014 11:49 AM
At least if you're basing it on talent, and not actual fame.
8/1/2014 11:59 AM
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/1/2014 11:49:00 AM (view original):
At least if you're basing it on talent, and not actual fame.
7th all time in hits.  Will end up at 6th.

8 200+ hit seasons.  Only 5 other players have had as many or more.

Career .311 average.  Career .379 OBP.

Derek Jeter has no talent?

Are you BL?
8/1/2014 12:11 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 8/1/2014 11:59:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/1/2014 11:49:00 AM (view original):
At least if you're basing it on talent, and not actual fame.
7th all time in hits.  Will end up at 6th.

8 200+ hit seasons.  Only 5 other players have had as many or more.

Career .311 average.  Career .379 OBP.

Derek Jeter has no talent?

Are you BL?
Are you a child?

No one said Jeter had no talent. He has(had) Hall of Fame talent. So does Beltre, probably more so than Jeter.
8/1/2014 12:21 PM
The offensive gap between Beltre and Jeter is about the same size as the offensive gap between Beltre and Brooks Robinson.  And the defensive gap is bigger.  Beltre is far closer to being an elite defender than an abysmal one; Robinson was elite, Jeter is abysmal.  If you think Brooks Robinson was better than Beltre, you should easily see how Beltre is better than Jeter, by the same logic.
8/1/2014 12:29 PM
Is HOF-worthiness based solely on WAR or OPS+ or whatever stat you choose?   You know, something that voters must ABIDE by?

No?  Color me shocked.  
8/1/2014 12:33 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/1/2014 12:29:00 PM (view original):
Is HOF-worthiness based solely on WAR or OPS+ or whatever stat you choose?   You know, something that voters must ABIDE by?

No?  Color me shocked.  
If you want to say that Jeter was more famous, fine. He is.

But Beltre is/was better at baseball. That's all I really care about.
8/5/2014 7:40 PM
east coast bias you guys are nuts
8/5/2014 9:26 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 7/31/2014 5:26:00 PM (view original):
RP is another easy one:

Eckersley
Rivera
Wilhelm

As long as Bruce Sutter isn't in I'm a happy guy. Sutter is the EPITOME of a guy who has no business being in the Hall unless he pays the admission to LOOK at it.
8/6/2014 9:40 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, but Carter is nowhere near Berra. Carter's OPS+ is 115 vs. Berra's 125. That's a massive difference. And Berra was MVP 3 times! It's not even close.
8/6/2014 9:45 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 7/31/2014 6:46:00 PM (view original):
Starting pitching is a monster. I'm tempted to break it up into groups: pre-1910, pre-1969, and 1969 forward. Instead I'm going to keep them grouped as one, probably unfairly favoring pitchers from the modern era.

Roger Clemens
Walter Johnson
Cy Young
Christy Mathewson
Tom Seaver
Lefty Grove
Randy Johnson
Greg Maddux
Pete Alexander
Warren Spahn
Kid Nichols
Bob Gibson
Pedro Martinez
Steve Carlton
Phil Niekro





That's a pretty good list, and really hard, too. There aren't any pre-1900 position players on the list, and for good reason. Not so sure about Kid Nichols, and even Cy Young - the game was hardly the same when they pitched.

Other guys near the bottom to consider would be Eddie Plank, Gaylord Perry and Three-Finger Brown. And of course you're always going to get the Koufax people, but I'm happy with him out.

8/6/2014 2:32 PM
Posted by mfahie on 8/6/2014 9:40:00 AM (view original):
I haven't read the whole thread, but Carter is nowhere near Berra. Carter's OPS+ is 115 vs. Berra's 125. That's a massive difference. And Berra was MVP 3 times! It's not even close.
Yeah, we had talked about that a little. Catcher is hard to evaluate since we don't really have a way to measure their defense but we know it's important. I have no problem replacing Carter with Fisk or Berra.
8/6/2014 3:46 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/1/2014 12:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/1/2014 12:29:00 PM (view original):
Is HOF-worthiness based solely on WAR or OPS+ or whatever stat you choose?   You know, something that voters must ABIDE by?

No?  Color me shocked.  
If you want to say that Jeter was more famous, fine. He is.

But Beltre is/was better at baseball. That's all I really care about.
Jeter is the most overrated player in baseball history.

Hall of Famer?  Yes

Top 5 Yankee?  Sure

Top 50 best of all time?  Heck no!
8/6/2014 3:47 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 8/1/2014 11:59:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/1/2014 11:49:00 AM (view original):
At least if you're basing it on talent, and not actual fame.
7th all time in hits.  Will end up at 6th.

8 200+ hit seasons.  Only 5 other players have had as many or more.

Career .311 average.  Career .379 OBP.

Derek Jeter has no talent?

Are you BL?
Complier.
8/6/2014 3:59 PM
Top 5 Yankee?

Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, Ford, DiMaggio, Gomez - I don't see how Jeter can break into the top 6.  I could see an argument for 7th, in competition with Berra and Dickey.

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