In-game fatigue bias? Topic

doubletruck
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I have a theme-league entry with Walter Johnson, Ed Walsh, Pete Alexander and Christy Mathewson in a four-man rotation, and virtually no bullpen. (The bullpen rarely gets used.)

This team keeps losing games in the 8th and 9th innings.

Is there an in-game fatigue bias that affects even those big four all-timers, even though they used to pitch 9 or 10 innings all the time?
10/11/2014 1:43 PM
contrarian23
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In-game fatigue affects them the same as everyone else...they have a threshold number of pitches they can throw per game, and once they exceed that they will fatigue.
10/11/2014 2:08 PM (edited)
contrarian23
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10/11/2014 2:07 PM
contrarian23
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10/11/2014 2:07 PM
contrarian23
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By my calculation, this should be the Max PC for each of the 4 to avoid in game fatigue:

Mathewson 100-105
Alexander 115
Walsh 120
Johnson 105

I would, however, allow all 4 to be used in relief...they should each be able to absorb some relief appearances and still be rested for their next turn in the rotation.

10/11/2014 2:12 PM
skunk206
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Contrarian's calculations are good.  I come up with max effective single-game pitch counts of:

Mathewson 103
Alexander 115
Walsh 119
Johnson 105

So you could either reduce their pitch counts and check them to enter in relief, or possibly change them into two tandem teams.  In tandems (basically dividing total pitches by 81 appearances), they'd have the following pitch counts:

Mathewson 75
Alexander 74.3
Walsh 70.6
Johnson 65.8

Pair up Mathewson/Johnson and you've got a 140 pitch/game starter.  Alexander and Walsh make a 145 pitch/game starter.  Change all your bullpen guys so they can only enter in the 9th inning or later, and you'll make fairly efficient use of the four starters' total pitches.

10/11/2014 2:32 PM
elbirdo
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my 2 cents:  Tandem is the only option.   Avoid using starters in long relief if at all possible.

Target pitch counts 
Mathewson 70
Alexander 70
Walsh 65
Johnson 60

Whoever you decide to use as Tandem 1A and 2A, set their max pitch count to their target pitch count.

Set the max pitch count for Tandem 1B and 2B to 100+ (use the numbers from contrarians's calculations above)

Set all four big guys call bullpen to 1. 

The way this plays out:

For any given game, your tandem pair could go over 170 pitches if necessary.

Your average pitches per game so far is about 127.5.  So, on average, the second guy in each tandem is gonna throw a few pitches less than their per-game allotment.  These will be 'banked' and can be used in those games where you need more than 127.5 pitches.  

Your other pitches to mopup and use mopup only when losing.




10/11/2014 9:48 PM
rbow923
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I'd go with a 3man rotation and put one of them in relief. after awhile move him back into the rotation and put somebody else in relief. keep rotating them as needed.
10/13/2014 7:10 PM
sooners07
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Elbirdo and Skunk both weighed in and gave the same input. Please, trust me, listen. They're all time great owners, plus they explained the logic behind their choice. 

Not that it means much but I agree with their input. Let your studs carry the team. I've never been too worried about the "appearance fatigue factor" - Which, now that I think about it, I believe comes into play when the pitcher reaches 70% of your teams games. So the tandem idea looks even better.

Edit: rbow and contrarian both weighing in on this topic too, that's how you know you asked a good question. 

10/17/2014 12:35 AM (edited)
popfischer
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general tandem question concerning bullpen use. For example: if your 1a starter is knocked out before they reach their max pitch count does the 1B starter come in automatically or is someone from the bullpen brought in? Thanks
10/19/2014 11:06 AM (edited)
elbirdo
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Posted by popfischer on 10/19/2014 11:06:00 AM (view original):
general tandem question concerning bullpen use. For example: if your 1a starter is knocked out before they reach their max pitch count does the 1B starter come in automatically or is someone from the bullpen brought in? Thanks
pretty certain the 1B guys comes in.  btw - he will come in even if he is below his autorest setting
10/19/2014 1:03 PM
teaparty
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To see exactly how in-game fatigue effects pitchers, play your team in some live games against the computer.
10/21/2014 1:17 PM
skunk206
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Posted by popfischer on 10/19/2014 11:06:00 AM (view original):
general tandem question concerning bullpen use. For example: if your 1a starter is knocked out before they reach their max pitch count does the 1B starter come in automatically or is someone from the bullpen brought in? Thanks
I had some issues with this at one point.  If your A pitcher reaches his max pitch count or is pulled early, the SIM will go to the B pitcher, but NOT in all situations.

For example, if your A pitcher is knocked out in the 3rd inning, but your B pitcher is set to be available in the 5th or later, and other pitchers are set to be available earlier than the 5th, then I've seen the SIM go to relief pitchers and never bring in the B pitcher in the tandem.  When using tandems, I'd make sure the B pitcher inning availability is set to Any, to be safe.
10/21/2014 2:30 PM
crazyamos
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I use tandems a fair amount in progressives for these kind of reasons, and I'm surprised how few other owners use them.
10/21/2014 8:56 PM
In-game fatigue bias? Topic
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