Posted by dahsdebater on 6/6/2015 3:56:00 PM (view original):
You think that because you're a Yankee fan.  I don't think the rest of the world sees A-Rod as any more guilty than they saw Bonds around the time of his retirement.

Correct. Yankee fans have an irrational hate for Arod and it existed long before the suspension.

Posted by dahsdebater on 6/6/2015 3:56:00 PM (view original):
You think that because you're a Yankee fan.  I don't think the rest of the world sees A-Rod as any more guilty than they saw Bonds around the time of his retirement.

First, I don't think being a Yankee fan has anything to do with it.

tec's premise is the ARod fessed up with the "it was a loosey-goosey time" excuse and then got caught doing it again.

But I think tec is wrong.   Bonds, Clemens, ARod are on a different level than Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro.    First, they aren't likeable fellows.   Second, at one point in time, they were considered the "best".   For whatever reason, that really gets under some people's skin. 

Mike that's a good separation of players you just presented. You can't argue with the careers of Bonds, Clemens, and ARod being extremely special. ARod perhaps is the most likable of the bunch and that isn't necessarily saying much. I don't think McGwire is a HOFer at all. And I'm not sure about Sosa or Palmeiro.

Personally, I think it's lame to be in favor of ARod, Bonds and Clemens in the HOF but not McGwire. The only right handed batter in history with a better OPS+ is Rogers Hornsby. Big Mac was one of the greatest hitters ever to play the game, period. Sure, he did steroids like all the other guys, and he won't get into the HOF because of it.

But to argue in favor of those other guys and leave McGwire out makes no sense at all.

McGwire's lifetime batting average is like .263. Add that batting average to the fact he was on steroids probably his entire career and in my opinion he's not a HOFer...more like a steroid version of Dave Kingman.

Career .394 OBP with his 580+ HR would put him in for me.

I'm probably in the minority, but I don't put as much stock into on base percentage as some. I put more stock in batting average.

Posted by cwillis802 on 6/10/2015 11:52:00 AM (view original):
I'm probably in the minority, but I don't put as much stock into on base percentage as some. I put more stock in batting average.

It's not really an opinion situation. We know, for a fact, that OBP and SLG are much more important than BA.

Yeah, you'll be in the minority.

I'd take a guy who hits .300 with an OBP of .370 over a .220/.380 guy.   But, the bigger the OBP difference, the less BA matters.

The math is pretty simple.   500 PA.    .300 vs .220 = 40 hits.   .370 vs. 380 = 5 on-base.    It's almost silly to throw away 40 more hits for 5 more times on base(or, if you prefer, 5 less outs).

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/10/2015 1:18:00 PM (view original):
The math is pretty simple.   500 PA.    .300 vs .220 = 40 hits.   .370 vs. 380 = 5 on-base.    It's almost silly to throw away 40 more hits for 5 more times on base(or, if you prefer, 5 less outs).

That's not what Perfesser BL teaches at Sabrmetric U.

I know.  But he's a functional retard.   So that should probably be ignored.

Posted by tecwrg on 6/10/2015 2:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/10/2015 1:18:00 PM (view original):
The math is pretty simple.   500 PA.    .300 vs .220 = 40 hits.   .370 vs. 380 = 5 on-base.    It's almost silly to throw away 40 more hits for 5 more times on base(or, if you prefer, 5 less outs).

That's not what Perfesser BL teaches at Sabrmetric U.

Given an almost identical OBP, the .300 hitter is way more valuable than the .220 hitter, unless the majority of the .220 hitter's hits are extra base hits.

If you assume league average-ish home runs and doubles, the first batter hits:

.300/.370/.407 with 107 singles, 18 doubles, 10 home runs, and 50 walks.

A very good, if slightly underpowered line. Basically 2008 Jeter, 2013 Pedroia, or 2011 Yunel Escobar.


Again, assuming average-ish HR & doubles, the second guy has a line of:

.221/.380/.342 with 60 singles, 18 doubles, 10 home runs, and 102 walks.

This second guy just doesn't happen. No one*** with a full season of PA has an average that low with an OBP that high. The batter would have to walk 100 times but only get around 90 hits. 

For guy two to be more valuable, instead of 60 singles, 18 doubles, and 10 home runs. He'd need to do something like hit 20 home runs and 30 doubles while only hitting 38 singles. That's just not something anyone does.

EDIT: The line for the second guy with the increased extra base hits would be .221/.380/.447. That would be more valuable than the first guy at .300/.370/.407.



***It's happened like six times in the history of baseball.

Well, gosh.  Thanks, Perfesser!!!

You're welcome