Posted by The Taint on 9/25/2014 4:25:00 PM (view original):
And there's no way in hell Barry Larkin was better than Derek Jeter. Again, the guy couldn't stay on the field. Personally, as a guy who watched his entire career I was surprised he made the Hall of Fame.

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/25/2014 4:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/25/2014 4:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/25/2014 4:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/25/2014 4:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/25/2014 4:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/25/2014 4:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by burnsy483 on 9/25/2014 4:01:00 PM (view original):
No, Jaffe agrees with me.  

@chrisburnzy yesh, Jeter's D is very costly in JAWS rankings - but I'd consider him a stronger HOF candidate (tho voters screwed Trammell)

I'd consider Jeter a stronger candidate too. I don't think that means they aren't close.

So if EVERYONE considers Jeter to be a stronger candidate, why is he in the same breath as Trammell? 

I don't see why that has to be mutually exclusive. Jeter is a better candidate for the Hall but similar in overall value to Trammell.

Tony Gwynn is a better candidate for the Hall but similar in overall value to Tim Raines. Frank Thomas is a better candidate for the Hall but similar in overall value to JIm Thome.

Nobody thinks Trammell is more worthy than Jeter.  If 2 people are similar in value, there would probably be a decent % of people who would argue for both.  I have a hard time with the argument that the guy who hit above league average 7 times in his career was better than Derek Jeter.

I think we're arguing past each other here. I don't think Trammell was better than Jeter. I don't think anyone does. I do think they are relatively close in overall value which, to me, isn't problematic. Having a consensus on the ranking doesn't require a huge margin.

Jeter was better with the bat (115 OPS+ vs 110 with 3000 more PA) while all the stats we have say Jeter was horrible with the glove and Trammell was excellent. Excellent enough to close most of the gap but not all of it.

Looked up Trammell's D numbers on fangraphs. They're great, which to me, doesn't mean a ton, but whatever.  Even with those great D numbers, Jeter's WAR is 10 more than Trammell.  

I'm uncomfortable with the comparison.

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/25/2014 4:31:00 PM (view original):
Generally speaking, I value quality over quantity as long as there is a reasonable quantity.  Yes, Jeter played more.  Fine.

Larkin had more power.  He stole more bases at a better success rate.  He walked more.  His fielding was light-years ahead.  What argues for Jeter?  10 points of batting average?  Pass.

Generally speaking, do you think ballot crowding will keep Jeter out of the HOF?

If not, perhaps that's where my "It's silly to compare Biggio/Jeter" thinking comes from. 

Posted by The Taint on 9/25/2014 4:35:00 PM (view original):
Did Larkin even average 120 games a year?

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/25/2014 4:31:00 PM (view original):
Generally speaking, I value quality over quantity as long as there is a reasonable quantity.  Yes, Jeter played more.  Fine.

Larkin had more power.  He stole more bases at a better success rate.  He walked more.  His fielding was light-years ahead.  What argues for Jeter?  10 points of batting average?  Pass.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/25/2014 4:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 9/25/2014 4:31:00 PM (view original):
Generally speaking, I value quality over quantity as long as there is a reasonable quantity.  Yes, Jeter played more.  Fine.

Larkin had more power.  He stole more bases at a better success rate.  He walked more.  His fielding was light-years ahead.  What argues for Jeter?  10 points of batting average?  Pass.

Larkin only has Jeter by a point in OPS+ and Jeter has 3500 more plate appearances. That's significant.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/25/2014 4:39:00 PM (view original):
To put it another way, they're already making Jeter's bust.     Can the same be said for Biggio?

I've already made that argument.