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Well the three stars is kind of easy, so far it's been the best players on the best teams. More individual performances may jump out at me later. The selection of Nesman, I noted that I hadn't singled him out in the Tornado's notes but he's worthy of some recognition IMO.

I'm trying to go for more than "everyone is scoring" and "this team sucks"... unless we find the Firebirds at #24 soon...

thanks for all the encouragement though! Glad you guys think it's worth it.

12/3/2007 11:29 AM

jaydenw31

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I know we were talking about making statistical changes to the drafts, but do we need to consider the "bonus" stats handed out?

I think the bottom 6 should be completely eliminated and the non-playoff bonus doesn't necissarily seem fair either. What if your team get's swept in round 1? The non-teams are rewarded more than you for competing in the playoffs. For that matter do all of the teams players advance in skill that regularly? I do have some guys that improve quickly, while others may not.

I can probably live with the Crosby bonus, but the bottom teams will get the better players from the draft and are guaranteed improvement points. I understand that parity is the goal from giving these out, but if players are getting dominant too quickly we should consider changing/eliminating these before a league wide roll back.

12/3/2007 11:31 AM

damag

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Actually, jayden, glad you brought that up. I had been thinking about this last week but I forgot it.

We currently add a non-playoff bonus so that the teams that miss out on additional games' improvements can "keep up".

What about reversing that? The teams which compete in the playoffs receive a regression instead. We just roll back their levels to pre-playoff skills.

That way we 1) simulate post-playoff fatigue/next-season hangover; and 2) keep leaguewide skill levels from improving for no reason.

I suspect the original plan was to keep any one team from being dominant for too long, but the results from seven seasons indicate that NO team has had an extended run of dominance that I've seen.

12/3/2007 12:14 PM

gocam

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Quote: Originally Posted By damag on 12/03/2007
Actually, jayden, glad you brought that up. I had been thinking about this last week but I forgot it.
We currently add a non-playoff bonus so that the teams that miss out on additional games' improvements can "keep up".
What about reversing that? The teams which compete in the playoffs receive a regression instead. We just roll back their levels to pre-playoff skills.
That way we 1) simulate post-playoff fatigue/next-season hangover; and 2) keep leaguewide skill levels from improving for no reason.
I suspect the original plan was to keep any one team from being dominant for too long, but the results from seven seasons indicate that NO team has had an extended run of dominance that I've seen.

I like this idea. If it's easy for OKP to do. If Mike Welsh is away just before playoffs, does that throw a wrench in things?

I'd keep a Sidney bonus of some kind though, maybe for teams that miss 2 years straight instead of 3.

12/3/2007 2:34 PM

damag

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Arg! No! Gotta be 3 seasons for the Crosby bonus! I would even say go the other way and make it 4. I know I took a shot at Andre Hoyla in the power rankings, but MAN would I love to have an Andre Hoyla on my team.

12/3/2007 3:04 PM

rammers

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Quote: Originally Posted By jaydenw31 on 12/03/2007

I know we were talking about making statistical changes to the drafts, but do we need to consider the "bonus" stats handed out?
I think the bottom 6 should be completely eliminated and the non-playoff bonus doesn't necissarily seem fair either. What if your team get's swept in round 1? The non-teams are rewarded more than you for competing in the playoffs. For that matter do all of the teams players advance in skill that regularly? I do have some guys that improve quickly, while others may not.

But actually we started the league with a roll back of playoff improvements setting. It's more of a job for admin this way, but okp arranged with admin to do a screen shot of each team and we did roll back improvements after playoff season 1. But this proved to give serious problems in the sim - the newly drafted players did not improve in skills at all. After a long time Mike Welch helped admin to fix the problem, but we were afraid we would have the same problems after each draft so we scratched the idea and went with bonus skills instead.

Surely the bonus skills may be a better deal than getting playoff games player skill improvements, they can be long between and teams being knocked out in round 1 would hardly get anything (Aliens have four 1st round exits LOL). But another additional reason for implementing the bonus system was to make sure non-playoff teams also got an injection of skills to make them more completive in future season and the league more enjoyable for all GM's.

Please post if I don't remember this stuff correctly guys...

12/3/2007 5:29 PM

damag

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Actually I remember reading those posts... I wasn't in the league at the time... about those problems the first time, rammers. Now I understand a bit better what I was reading!

12/3/2007 5:43 PM

big_drive

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Quote: Originally Posted By damag on 12/03/2007
Well the three stars is kind of easy, so far it's been the best players on the best teams. More individual performances may jump out at me later. The selection of Nesman, I noted that I hadn't singled him out in the Tornado's notes but he's worthy of some recognition IMO.

Thanks damag!!!

12/3/2007 5:51 PM

big_drive

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I don't think taking away the non-playoff team bonuses is a good idea. As was stated before, it's a way for weaker teams to get better. Plus there's only been 3 teams that have made the playoffs every season, so almost every GM has got this bonus.

For sure the Crosby bonus should stay, and at 3 seasons.

12/3/2007 5:56 PM

yogsloth

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Yeah, we tried that bonus rollback thing, and it totally jacked up the whole sim. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but we had no way of knowing that it would throw a monkey wrench into the sim itself to try and do that.

I'm going to keep beating my D-rollback drum!

Ba BOOM. Ba BOOM. Ba BOOM.

12/3/2007 6:34 PM

gocam

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Quote: Originally Posted By yogsloth on 12/03/2007

Yeah, we tried that bonus rollback thing, and it totally jacked up the whole sim. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but we had no way of knowing that it would throw a monkey wrench into the sim itself to try and do that.
I'm going to keep beating my D-rollback drum!
Ba BOOM. Ba BOOM. Ba BOOM.

I will second this notion, only if it is possible to cap a player's skill level on the defensive stat only. (Say at 80 or 90 at the most) That way if my defenseman improves it won't be for nothing. Once he reaches 80 Def - he'll only improve in the other stats. Otherwise a lesser defenseman will keep all their improvements & catch up to a more experienced defenseman faster.

12/3/2007 7:34 PM

damag

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Just discussing here, now. I would be confident a d-level rollback on defensemen would increase goals. I just wish there were some way to test it. Because it would change the way those skill levels relate to all others.

For example, if we didn't touch the forwards' d-levels, what effect would that have?

Would shooting and skating levels be enhanced considerably? By how much? What would it mean?

Exactly how much of a rollback? What would be enough? What would be too much.

I fear unintended side effects. Erections lasting over four hours, that sort of thing.

12/4/2007 8:54 AM

yogsloth

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Quote: Originally Posted By damag on 12/04/2007
Just discussing here, now. I would be confident a d-level rollback on defensemen would increase goals. I just wish there were some way to test it. Because it would change the way those skill levels relate to all others.
For example, if we didn't touch the forwards' d-levels, what effect would that have?
Would shooting and skating levels be enhanced considerably? By how much? What would it mean?
Exactly how much of a rollback? What would be enough? What would be too much.
I fear unintended side effects. Erections lasting over four hours, that sort of thing.

I hear you. It would have to be done very carefully. But guess what... we can test it! We can always have Mr. Welch re-start the schedule. We've done that the past several seasons as sthe spreadsheet is turned back in. It's the pre-season. I think a global 20 point rollback on D-man D levels would do it. That way, most of us would still have guys from 60-80 DEF rating. It wouldn't be like season 1, but more like seasons 2&3. The suggestion for a permanent cap of 80 or so (would have to be done manually every year) is kinda neat too.

We could test it for 5-10 games, and if it sucked, we could re-set all the stats and reset the schedule.

12/4/2007 10:50 AM

jaydenw31

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Quote: Originally Posted By damag on 12/04/2007
Just discussing here, now. I would be confident a d-level rollback on defensemen would increase goals. I just wish there were some way to test it. Because it would change the way those skill levels relate to all others.
For example, if we didn't touch the forwards' d-levels, what effect would that have?
Would shooting and skating levels be enhanced considerably? By how much? What would it mean?
Exactly how much of a rollback? What would be enough? What would be too much.
I fear unintended side effects. Erections lasting over four hours, that sort of thing.

I agree with this. We don't know what it will do to the teams overall. Mike should be able to simply copy the leagues player ratings and simulate it several times independantly to figure out what the effects are. It would also be helpful in deciding what each of level of change causes, whether it's 5, 10, 20, etc.

12/4/2007 1:15 PM

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